D&D 5E Experience with a bladesinger?

[doctorbadwolf]

Using that whole warrior/gish/dedicated caster line up I did above, where would you put the bard, would you say? Do you think they're more gishy like the warlock, or more dedicated caster like a cleric?

I've always played bards as gishes, honestly. I do think their spell list could better support it, though, and the valor bard...needs a fighting style more than it needs more armors and weapons.
But bard with a level dip in any gishy class, especially warlock for gish cantrips, is, IMO, one of the best gishes in the game. No other setup, again IMO, does a better magical Swashbuckler/pirate captain/robin hoodesque character.

 

[CapnZapp]

It would definitely be sweet if your DM gave you a mithril chain shirt that worked like light armor. No idea why the chain shirt didn't stay light armor.

A general overview:

The chain shirt was light armor in 3rd Edition, granting +1 AC above studded leather, which in 5E terms would be expressed as AC 13 + Dex modifier (not 14).

The 5E elven chain is a +1 chain shirt that does not require medium armor proficiency. The most straight-forward interpretation makes it still a medium armor, making it not stackable with bladesinging.

5E mithral can't be applied to light armors. Its general benefit to waive the Strength/Speed and Stealth disadvantages. For chain shirts and breastplates (which do not have these restrictions) the benefit is instead "can be worn under normal clothes" which is more of a roleplaying benefit since there is no bonus to any relevant combat parameter.

Notable is that during the playtest, a "mithral shirt" was explicitly in the "PHB" (the equipment chapter of the playtest) being a light armor granting the AC 13 + Dex of a chain shirt equivalence costing 5000 gp.

(At that time all three armor categories had expensive but not magical armor to strive for, such as "dragon leather" or "mithral scale". Note how regular plate mail was priced as the equivalent 5000 gp heavy armor - a remnant of this can be seen in how plate mail is in 5E "semi special": it isn't magical, but no starting character can afford plate mail straight away)

Of course, during the playtest studded leather was considered medium armor, so my best guess is that the designers didn't feel the "old" armor types were sacred, and switched them around to test various configurations, and that the main reason we ended up with medium chain shirt is more or less by chance - simply that this was the current configuration when the playtest froze that particular aspect.

A "a mithril chain shirt that worked like light armor" is the equivalent of a +1 studded leather (that you can wear under regular clothing) if I assume by "work like light armor" you mean not only "counts as light armor for purposes of bladesinging" but also "no max Dex modifier", so I guess if your DM is okay with a +1 studded leather she should be okay with this too.

 

[Blue]

I'd go Ftr 1 to get the good Con and Str save and the fighting style. Then Wizard Bladesinger 2 to get blade song. Then I'd level to Ftr 6 to get two attacks and two feats to get my stats leveled up. Then I'd go 3 more levels of wizard to get my casting ability stronger to level 4 wizard. So by 10th level I'd be a level 6 Eldritch Knight/4 Wizard Bladesinger with two attacks, 2nd level spells, and 6 levels of multiclass caster. Level 11 I'd take ftr 7 to get the ability to cast a cantrip and swing a blade. 12 I'd go one more fighter to get another feat. Then I'd go 4 more caster levels to get my casting ability to 4th level spells by 16th level with 10 levels of spell slots. Then three levels fighter to 3 attacks and 1 level wizard at 20 for 5th level slots. You can mix it up some in there if you want more casting or fighting ability. That would be a more melee capable bladesinger and fit the old archetype better. It would definitely be sweet if your DM gave you a mithril chain shirt that worked like light armor. No idea why the chain shirt didn't stay light armor.

If you're looking at starting fighter, is bladesinger really that much better for melee than any other wizard subclass to make a gish? You can cast wearing heavy armor with your proficiency so you're not worried about that. A bladesinger has better concentration saves and more movement at the cost of no shield and no two handed weapons, both of which are good by themselves and also have good feats for boosting. Also you are missing out on the other traditions of another class, such as the abjurer's ward to help booster lower HPs.

Bladesinger seems reasonable if you are staying singleclassed, but if multiclassing is allowed it is a fair but not only choice for melee wizard.

 

[Celtavian]

If you're looking at starting fighter, is bladesinger really that much better for melee than any other wizard subclass to make a gish? You can cast wearing heavy armor with your proficiency so you're not worried about that. A bladesinger has better concentration saves and more movement at the cost of no shield and no two handed weapons, both of which are good by themselves and also have good feats for boosting. Also you are missing out on the other traditions of another class, such as the abjurer's ward to help booster lower HPs.

Bladesinger seems reasonable if you are staying singleclassed, but if multiclassing is allowed it is a fair but not only choice for melee wizard.

It's more about capturing older edition Bladesinger melee power and combined spellcasting. If I were min-maxing, I would pick another class than Bladesinger like abjurer, evoker, or diviner. Bladesinger is more of a style of choice.

 

[Blue]

It's more about capturing older edition Bladesinger melee power and combined spellcasting. If I were min-maxing, I would pick another class than Bladesinger like abjurer, evoker, or diviner. Bladesinger is more of a style of choice.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's pretty cool. I think it was just that once you add in multiclassing there are some other viable builds as well. I love the concentration bonus so I can buff myself without worry about losing it.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I do something similar, though Elven Chain only counts as light armor if you have medium armor proficiency. Basic idea is while Elven Chain is really easy to move in (allowing users without proficiency to wear it without penalty) those who actually know how to wear and move in a chain shirt can maximize the armor's potential.

Except that wouldn't allow a Bladesinger to make use of Elven Chain, if that matters.

Personally, I think I'm just going to treat Elven Chain as light armor as well as saying you don't need proficiency. Otherwise the Dex penalty would make it a bad choice for Bladesingers even if it were light.

 

[aarduini]

Personally, I've never seen any of these TWFing bladesingers before in any lore. Can you give an example?

In the Elfsong book series by Ellaine Cunningham, one of the ancestors that use to own the moonblade was a bladesinger that fought with two swords. Her spirit was conjured by the blade.

 

[Celtavian]

A general overview:

The chain shirt was light armor in 3rd Edition, granting +1 AC above studded leather, which in 5E terms would be expressed as AC 13 + Dex modifier (not 14).

The 5E elven chain is a +1 chain shirt that does not require medium armor proficiency. The most straight-forward interpretation makes it still a medium armor, making it not stackable with bladesinging.

5E mithral can't be applied to light armors. Its general benefit to waive the Strength/Speed and Stealth disadvantages. For chain shirts and breastplates (which do not have these restrictions) the benefit is instead "can be worn under normal clothes" which is more of a roleplaying benefit since there is no bonus to any relevant combat parameter.

Notable is that during the playtest, a "mithral shirt" was explicitly in the "PHB" (the equipment chapter of the playtest) being a light armor granting the AC 13 + Dex of a chain shirt equivalence costing 5000 gp.

(At that time all three armor categories had expensive but not magical armor to strive for, such as "dragon leather" or "mithral scale". Note how regular plate mail was priced as the equivalent 5000 gp heavy armor - a remnant of this can be seen in how plate mail is in 5E "semi special": it isn't magical, but no starting character can afford plate mail straight away)

Of course, during the playtest studded leather was considered medium armor, so my best guess is that the designers didn't feel the "old" armor types were sacred, and switched them around to test various configurations, and that the main reason we ended up with medium chain shirt is more or less by chance - simply that this was the current configuration when the playtest froze that particular aspect.

A "a mithril chain shirt that worked like light armor" is the equivalent of a +1 studded leather (that you can wear under regular clothing) if I assume by "work like light armor" you mean not only "counts as light armor for purposes of bladesinging" but also "no max Dex modifier", so I guess if your DM is okay with a +1 studded leather she should be okay with this too.

I may allow this. The main reason they seem to have limited light armor is to give a nod to heavy armor strength characters. If they gave a light armor that gave +3, then that equals heavy armor equivalent with dex as the primary statistic. That would make Dex even more valuable than it already is. I don't like rules that focus on balance to the detriment of verisimilitude and tradition, but it is what it is. Mithril armor should definitely reduce armor type in my opinion. As you said, I can just make something up to work in this edition and be done with it. It's one of the things I really like about 5E. I can make unique items easily and hand them out. I've been customizing a lot of magic items for my games. I find it far more enjoyable than handing out items according to level.

 

[aarduini]

Also,

Josidiah Starym was a notable bladesinger who use to own Guenwyvar. He used twin Swords.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Josidiah_Starym

 

[Celtavian]

There used to be a drow elf form of Bladesong that worked with two swords in 2nd edition I believe, back when drow were renowned for two-weapon fighting. 3rd edition watered down the drow ability to fight with two weapons and 4E and 5E pretty much eliminated the ability to the point where it wasn't unique in any fashion.