Experience with Jedi

[GoodKingJayIII]

These questions are for all the GMs and players with a lot of Jedi experience. Reading the book, it appears that Jedi are very powerful: high saving throws, attack and defense bonuses, force skills, and damage potential will beyond any other class. However, appearance on paper can be very deceptive, and their Force skilsl represent an incredible drain on their vitality points. How have Jedi functioned in your SWRPG games? Do they absolutely dominate, or does their one-dimensional melee-centric style keep them in check? Have you made changes to the class, and if so, how and why? Players, how have you enjoyed playing with a Jedi? Did you feel your own skills dwarfed in comparison, or were you able to cover areas a Jedi character could not otherwise? Thanks for any and all information you've got.

Edit: I noticed the post further down about Jedi Consular vs. Jedi Guardian, but I am actually concerned about Jedi as they relate to the other classes. I'm sure this question has come up before (maybe very recently. I didn't check the archives, so sorry about that), but I want to hear both sides of the experience, both those who have had good and not so good experiences with the classes

 

[mojo1701]

Generally, they don't have many problems. Jedis DO use a lot of vitality to use force points, but as a result, they get a higher Vitality die per level (d10, highest).

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Jedi are very well balanced with the rest of the classes. While they may look to be very powerful overall, the cost of spending Vitality for Force Powers is a definite balancing factor and really keeps the Jedi in line with other non-Force users.

 

[mojo1701]

That, and having a larger choice of feats and skills.

Sure, you COULD spread out all your skills to cover more, but that would mean that you're not as strong in certain skills.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

What about damage. The increased lightsaber damage is another one of those figures that looks really great on paper, especially considering no other class has that kind of damage potential. Even the first +1d8 is twice as good as weapon specialization (on average), and the Guardian eventually gets +4d8 damage. The only other weapon I've seen with comparative damage in the core book is the e-web blaster, which requires a tripod.

 

[Dominic]

I have found that at higher levels, Jedi are very powerful in a straight up fight - after the first round. With Battlemind and Enhance Ability, they take a round to buff to their best values. Take away this round, and even though their abilities are good without, they seem lost.

Also, most Jedi spend all their skill points on their Force skills, leaving them on the sidelines for Piloting, Computer Hacking, and other skills that drive many encounters.

Lastly, I've found the best way to deal with Lightsabers, and their extra damage - grenades. Although any ranged area effect weapon will do - grenades are my favorite.

 

[Super Girl]

I have found Jedi to be over-powered in comparision to the non-Jedi. If any encounter is made with the power level of the Jedi in mind, then the other charactrs can kiss their butts good bye, and if its made for the non-Jedi, well the Jedi can handle it himself. A single Force Skill can replace multiple normal ones, and thats just where the force and normal skills are equivalents, with the force you can do things that no matter how skilled a person is they cannot match. Need sense motive, bluff, diplomacy? use affect mind. Need spot, search, listen? use enhance senses. A jedi can be better then any character in that character's area of specialization.

Unless its a more roleplay game, the Jedi will run away with the show leaving other players feeling like sidekicks.

 

[argo]

My experience is limited to one campaign (hopefully I'll get a chance to play another someday!) but here is what I came away with. The party was:
An Arkanian Force Adept (dark side) with a Sith Sword for melee
A Trandoshan mercenary built mostly with Soldier levels
A Duros pilot built with (I think) Soldier and Fringer
An Arkanian "slicer" (played by me) built with Tech Specalist and Scoundrel
A Kel Dor "scholar" built on a horrible multiclass of Fringer, Force Adept, Noble and possibly something else.
An assasin droid (custom droid model) with a sniper rifle.

Long story short: the dark force adept owned most combats. The assasin droid could snipe anything but few of our combats were such that you could not charge to melee range (a side effect of most of our campaign being played either on board spacecraft or in the back alleys of Courscant). The Duros obviously took center stage in our space combat (I was the backup pilot) and in those cases the force adept usually just manned a turret. But the force adept's combination of melee ability and force powers (admitedly they were the nasty dark side powers ) let him clean up in most character scale fights. Even the Trandoshan soldier couldn't keep up ... the lizard was tougher but the force adept was deadlier.

Out of combat: well the Kel Dor was set up to be our diplomat but he usually spent the first half of any conversation rolling Sense Motive checks and passing secret notes to the DM related to his mental force powers. He would come in near the end with some keen observations about whoever we were talking to gleaned from a mixture of mundane skills and force powers. I shudder to think of what sort of holy terror he could have been in social situations if his character had been built by a munchkin (like me) instead of a roleplayer. As it turned out most social situations would up being dominated by me (with bluff) and the dark force adept (with intimidate ... backed up by "persuasive" use of dark side powers).

Now its entierly possible that much of my experience was derrived from the particular roleplay dynamic of that group of characters (the droid took orders like a ... droid. The Trandoshan limited most of his conversations to emotive grunts, the Kel Dor spent all his time being quiet and mysterious and the Duros only wanted to fly the damn ship. Thus the slicer and the dark force adept became the party leaders ) but the force user really seemed to be able to either equall or beat any party member in any area except piloting or computer use/crafting. And I know that part of the reason for that is he avoided those skills because there were other party members devoted to them. I can hardly imagine what things would have looked like if he had had a lightsaber and all the other Jedi goodies.

So yeah, the Jedi classes are straight up more powerful than the other classes. Maybe that is the way it should be, this is Star Wars after all.


One last aside. Tech Specalist is by far the weakest class in the game. The best thing I ever did for my Tech Specalist was multiclass to Scoundrel. There is very little a straight Tech Specalist can do that a straight Scoundrel or Fringer cannot do nearly as well ... and a Scoundrel or Fringer gets a lot of other bennies besides. I could go on but I don't want to hijack.

Hope that helps.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Unless its a more roleplay game, the Jedi will run away with the show leaving other players feeling like sidekicks.

Have you or your GM done anything to alleviate this situation?

Maybe that is the way it should be, this is Star Wars after all.

I disagree, simply on the principle that roleplaying classes should create a situation in which all types of characters can have fun. While I personally feel that all things Jedi lie at the heart of the Star Wars stories, it's not the same for everyone. Jedi should not be supermen in a roleplaying game.

Edit: I had this bizarre idea. What about swapping in the d20 Modern base classes and making the Star Wars classes into Advanced classes?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

That would work as well as anything. I'd contemplated taking all of the class abilities from SWRPG and turning them into talent trees for Grim Tales. Properly balanced, I think it could make for a spectacularly great method for building PCs.

The more I deal with d20SWRPG ... and the more a particularly Power-Gamey possible player talks to me about feats and builds and Jedi Guardians and maxing out Move Object ... the less I like the current system.

--fje