Experiences with letting players control a ship?

[Derren]

What are peoples experiences with letting the players control a ship, be it a normal sea bound one, flying or even space ship?

I do not only mean using it as "behind the scenes" way to let them move around, but actually controling the ship in a combat situation.

Naturally not all players can controll the ship at the same time and making it a democratic vote will make combat take ages. Its also not really immersive.

The most logical and as far as I have seen most often used approach is giving each player a specific role on the ship like captain, helmsman, etc.
But even then, players are just taking turns in doing something while the others watch. And while I would work for a short, single adventure, basing an entire campaign on this premise doesn't sound very entertaining to me either.

So, has someone has an advice how to make such a game fun for everyone while still giving the players the control over the ship instead of having NPCs run the whole show?

Edit:
This comic does touch this subject somewhat.
http://nodwick.humor.gamespy.com/ffn/index.php?date=2010-09-21

 

[crazy_monkey1956]

My shipboard adventures have generally been the most successful when the ship was in the background. The PCs were generally on hand and on deck, at the center of the battle for boarding actions and the like but not directly controlling the ship.

In fact, my most memorable games with ships have been when the ship was destroyed (flying ship grappled and torn in half by a flying kraken like monster and PC ship vs pirate ship in a storm, both ships sink, PCs and pirates washed ashore).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

There are lots of game systems that cover this kind of thing. Unfortunately, they often offer roles of little value (measured in "fun").

Some systems have good rules for electronics (hacking, jamming, etc) and some have good rules for vehicle maneuvers, but IME most don't. (Piloting shouldn't be about turning 45 degrees, it should be about dodging. Otherwise the commander should determine where you go.)

Make sure you have a list of "fun" roles. It's also a lot of work on the GM to run an NPC ship, IME, especially if you're using a system where crew take hit point damage.

 

[jonesy]

(Piloting shouldn't be about turning 45 degrees, it should be about dodging. Otherwise the commander should determine where you go.)

I remember using a system from a magazine which had several lists of naval manouvers (depending on the type terrain, river ocean whatnot) which you could then have the captains pick, and then compare against each other to see who manouvered better (or who got into a better firing position if they had cannons). Don't recall what the magazine was, but you could make up a system like that.

 

[Nagol]

The original Star Trek game had assigned roles for ship combat that worked reasonably enough though some roles like Engineering required some system mastery (optimising power assignment on the fly can be fiddly).


It gave many roles something to do during the relatively common ship to ship combat segments.

 

[Cor_Malek]

Mxyzplk has had an interesting Story Hour, big parts of which took place on board of ships - with PC's a both lackeys and in charge of vessel:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/story-hour/266041-pathfinder-reavers-seas-fate.html

He also used some naval combat and described it here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/story-hour/266041-pathfinder-reavers-seas-fate-2.html#post5157784

 

[Aurumvorax]

The problem with ship combat is that piloting even the smallest vessels is an exercise in micromanagement. The captain gives directions to the helmsman, calls to the weapons officer to load and make ready, orders damage control to patch damaged infrastructure, calls to the bos'n to reinforce the sails, and asks the first mate for an accurate ammunition count in the span of a single round. The PCs will either be the CO calling the shots or they'll be one of the many deck hands who do whatever specific task is available to them.

You'll notice that heroic fantasy sailors are almost always combatants and even if they're the captain they'll pass on instructions to the first mate, draw their sword, and be the first to board the enemy ship. Sailing a vessel, even a fantasy one, is a deep, complicated, and involved process and incredibly boring to role play from the micromanagement level. Unless you can somehow make knotting line and swabbing decks entertaining it's best to fast forward until something exciting happens which is usually when ships are close enough to board each other.

Edit: Honestly, I think ship combat is the perfect realm for 4e style skill challenges. Each PC can be an officer; CO grants bonuses to everyone else for good leadership, the bos'n works the sails and deckwork, weapons officer manages guns, navigation officer manages movement and sight, damage control manages ship's health, medical officer treats the wounded. Each round the CO calls for a maneuver and rolls to inspire the action of another officer who makes the skill check. Ultimately your goal is to destroy the enemy ship so each successful skill check can increase the ship's chance to aim and damage the enemy. The bos'n can increase or decrease speed putting the ship in a favorable position, the navigation officer can pull off a successful pass allowing more cannons to be fired, damage control can reduce penalties implied by current hits, etc.

Damn, I think I'm going to run a 4e naval game now.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

My own experience is that it works best if the bulk of the crew are npcs and the basic management of the vessel is done by them in the background.

Let the PC's do the swashbuckling stuff. Unless you have players who want to play lets manage a ship minigame.

 

[Derren]

Lets get a bit more specific.

How would you play out the following scenario.

The PCs are part of the crew of a pirate hunter (or the commanding officers, you decide whatever you think would be more fun for the players) on a 24 sloop-of-war encounter a equally well armed corsair xebec with damaged sails, so an escape is not possible unless it damages your sails first or dismasts your ship.

While I could run a scripted battle the outcome of it should be open (either side getting sunk, boarded or being able to flee).

So how would you run this encounter while providing the most "entertainment" for your players with no one sitting on the bench whle the others do their thing?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I remember using a system from a magazine which had several lists of naval manouvers (depending on the type terrain, river ocean whatnot) which you could then have the captains pick, and then compare against each other to see who manouvered better (or who got into a better firing position if they had cannons). Don't recall what the magazine was, but you could make up a system like that.

IIRC in Alternity pulling even a minor maneuver made you hard to hit. (Unfortunately, the excessively complex combat system meant this hardly factored in combat, IME.)

Lets get a bit more specific.

How would you play out the following scenario.

The PCs are part of the crew of a pirate hunter (or the commanding officers, you decide whatever you think would be more fun for the players) on a 24 sloop-of-war encounter a equally well armed corsair xebec with damaged sails, so an escape is not possible unless it damages your sails first or dismasts your ship.

While I could run a scripted battle the outcome of it should be open (either side getting sunk, boarded or being able to flee).

So how would you run this encounter while providing the most "entertainment" for your players with no one sitting on the bench whle the others do their thing?

Not being a naval expert, I can only say those ships sound rather large to begin with. Lots of NPCs. I'll get to that in a second.

Why are the PCs officers? It might make sense from a role point of view, but unless the PCs have the right training, it won't make sense. Also, if you have a PC with low Intelligence and Charisma scores, there's fewer roles for them. Or you can have said PCs "lead" the troop charge, but that means several rounds of sitting and doing nothing, and the two ships might never dock/tie-up/whatever.

I would suggest doing a scripted encounter, and keep it fast until a part where all the PCs can participate. Ideally they'd be passengers and so wouldn't have the opportunity to take a leadership role. (If they're like most PCs, they won't have skills to help there.) So just zip until the boarding action occurs. (Since it's scripted, it occurs.) But even then, you might have a problem with loads of minions who would realistically be on their side. Consult some good mass combat rules, maybe.