Expertise question

[Jack Haggerty]

If you were to aid your ally using a ranged weapon, would it cost you ammo to do so? It could be a kin to firing a warning shot past the enemy (which would waste ammo) or it could be a kin to just pointing your crossbow at the enemy causing them to be more cautious of you which might be considered enough to aid your ally. I don't think the PHB goes into too many specifics of this.

It doesn't matter, because it doesn't look like you can Aid Another with a ranged weapon. From the SRD...

Aid another [Standard][AoO: No]

Description: If a combatant threatens an opponent with which an ally is engaged in melee combat, the combatant can attempt to aid the ally as a standard action. The combatant makes an attack roll against AC 10. If the combatant succeeds, the combatant's ally gains either a +2 circumstance bonus to attack that opponent or a +2 circumstance bonus to AC against that opponent (the combatant's choice).

You can't threaten an area (as in threatening an AoO) with a ranged weapon, and so you cannot Aid Another with a ranged weapon.

 

[Henrix]

That's a tough one. The text in the PHB on aid says:
"If you're in a position to attack an opponent with which a friend of yours i engaged in melee combat, you can aid your friend"

Which seems to imply that you do not, in fact, have to be in melee contact with the enemy.
There is nothing in the errata or the FAQ about this, as far as I can see.

(Otherwise I agree with you, Forceful Jack, that if we go by the SRD, then you must be able to make a melee attack.)

And in my eyes it is OK if the annoying halfling rogue can distract the ogre from hitting his paladin friend by yelling and throwing rocks, or mushrooms, at him.

Does it use up ammunition? Well, if that's what you have at hand, then it does. If you spend a (move equivalent) action to pick something up to throw, fine with me. (But don't waste your +2 Screaming Bolts on it.)

Note, however, that it is not, despite the fact that you make an attack roll, an attack action.
Therefore you cannot use Expertise while doing it.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Again, if you're going by the rules, I'd say no. If you want to house rule that characters can Aid Another with Ranged Weapons, then I strongly suggest that it requires using up ammunition.

Just remember... If the PCs can do it, so can the NPCs.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Seems fair to me.
I can imagine that arrows shot at you can really disturb you. (I would be, but I am not a giant )
The only problem that might be in this case: You fire into melee. I think, the +4 cover bonus and the -4 penalty (that can be negated with Precise Shot) should be counted in this fact.

 

[Henrix]

And I'd say it depends on which version of the rules you go by. The PHB or the SRD.

I much prefer the PHB, as that is what I have at hand when playing.

(Or is there some general ruling, which I am not aware of, that the SRD takes precedence over the PHB?)

But either rule is fine with me.
But I find the discrepancy annoying, as I am an awful rules lawyer.


Naturally, all normal attack modifiers apply to the attack roll, including the -4 to fire into melee and posssible cover bonus from intervening models.

 

[Umbran]

Aiding an attack with a ranged weapon may not be against the letter of the PHB rules, but it seems against the spirit of them.

When one aids another in combat, one is "getting in the way" of the opponent. Threatening, distracting, swinging one's weapon in the way, trying to tangle up the opponent's feet, or whatever. You don't have to do damage (in fact, you can't do damage), but you have to generally make a nuisance of yourself and make the opponent's job difficult.

As opposed to a ranged weapon, where your only real choice is to do damage. You can't help parry the opponent's sword with an arrow.

 

[RigaMortus]

Note, however, that it is not, despite the fact that you make an attack roll, an attack action.
Therefore you cannot use Expertise while doing it.

I'm not so sure about that. It is under the "Special ATTACKS and Damage" section in the PHB. It also mentions "In COMBAT, you can help a friend ATTACK or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. It also goes on to say that "You make an ATTACK ROLL against an AC 10". So I think technically it would be All this wording makes me think this is indeed a valid attack action.

As opposed to a ranged weapon, where your only real choice is to do damage. You can't help parry the opponent's sword with an arrow.

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to interfere or even distract an opponent with a ranged weapon. Heck, even verbal assaults should work for distracting them =) Ok, I went too far there... but seriously, all you need to do is get the enemies attention so that they are aware you are going to either a) shoot at them or b) already shot at them and you would dop this by making an attack roll vs an AC 10. Are you suggesting you couldn't Aid Another if you were using a whip?

 

[Umbran]

Ok, I went too far there... but seriously, all you need to do is get the enemies attention so that they are aware you are going to either a) shoot at them or b) already shot at them and you would dop this by making an attack roll vs an AC 10.

No, it isn't quite that simple. The enemy knows you are a threat when you make a normal attack, and making that attack is distracting, but this doesn't grant your ally any bonus. The Aid Another action must thus be something different than being a threat or passive distraction. Aid Another is being an active hindrance. You reach into the fight, put your weapon in the way, crowd the enemy - do things that actively hinder the enemy's ability to fight without actually causing damage. I don't see that as being plausible with a ranged weapon.