D&D General Explain 5(.5)e to me

[Zardnaar]

That's interesting. I used that analogy because--in my observation--you just press a button (or some combination of buttons) in a modern video game and you get an effect of some kind for your character. With some of the class bonus actions I've seen--rage, second wind, for example--there is no narrative component. You simply say "I am raging" and get an effect. Those kinds of powers didn't exist in older versions of the game.

I'm not dismissing those 5e features, but they are a component of the rules that I have found to be a bit unimaginative.

Understandable.

Spellcasters have I win button in older D&D. One way of dealing with that is I win buttons for everyone. 5.5 is full of it.

Downside poor DM.

 

[roguish]

I've always gravitated towards rogues and skillmonkeys. And I have many complaints with 5e, but on the whole I find it fits my style of play: I like to play someone competent, but not in a "I can do anything!" sense, or "I'm super mighty and deal a million damage per turn". In a grounded way, more like a specialist. These are my strengths, these are my weaknesses, now how do I solve problems by taking advantage of the former while compensating for the latter.

In AD&D 2e (my starting point), I couldn't play a competent thief. The rules wouldn't let me. The rules told me that I have, for example, a 30% chance to successfully pick pockets, in any and all contexts, and there's nothing I can do to stack the deck in my favour. I was thinking, what if I tried to take advantage of this street spectacle that's distracting a big crowd? What if I tried to choose a victim with a poorly secured purse? Nope, nothing mattered, it was still a 30% chance.

In D&D 3.5, I could play a competent thief, but I had to make it happen in character creation and shopping sessions. Basically for anything that wasn't a full caster, to achieve competence I had to take this race, that subrace, the other template, these 4 feats (need a flaw to fit them all), dip this class, take that prestige class, and more importantly stock up on magic and mundane items to boost my check with all these different modifiers. [Note that when full casters did that same process, the game fully broke.] Number Go Up is the name of the game. And then, if I did something clever in-character, the DM might deign to grant me a +2 circumstance bonus.

In D&D 5e, whose skill system leaves so much to be desired (esp. 5.5, which kind of abandoned all rules and guidelines about it and I'm still livid), I actually can play a competent thief. I don't need to change my character concept and choose a whole other species just to get a Dex boost that thieves can't do without. I don't need to look like a christmas tree full of shiny magic items to do what my archetype is supposed to be doing. Rogues are good with skills and you can select which you're good at, Thief Rogues can pickpocket extra fast, and bounded accuracy keeps Number from Going arbitrarily Up. And then, when I do something clever in-character, the DM grants me advantage, which meaningfully affects my chances to succeed.

Downside: the DM has no idea how to resolve pick-pocketing (i.e. what the DC is), unless the DM is already versed in these things from previous editions, D&D variants, or homebrew. Otherwise, all they got to work with is a vague DC range from trivially easy 5 to nigh impossible 30, and "some checks are contested".

Upside: The DM can quickly learn what works best for theirs and the group's preferences, and adapt accordingly without breaking the game, and also I don't play with newbie DMs, so I don't care.

So that example was probably too specific (in many campaigns pickpocketing never comes up), but the broad point stands. In 5e I can portray selective competence (my favourite!) without taking 4 days to build a character. So I'm good with it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So much that for sake of my own sense of verisimilitude, I can't run in a home brew NOT-Europe or even NOT-Earth type setting any more. My default home brew setting now is a weird magic filled trade city with spell jammers, gates, and dimensional teleports similar to what you would have seen in Myth Adventures (I date myself there). PCs probably don't have access to that tech at low level, but the city is very cosmopolitan with everything that is in D&D, and with the gates that are common use can be in a variety of settings more favorable to adventures in a relatively short trip.

Yeah, I wouldn't use 5E to run even a lightly magical version of a medieval European city. It's much more suited to places like Sigil, Sharn or Ptolus (all of which are great settings, to be sure).

 

[UngainlyTitan]

That's interesting. I used that analogy because--in my observation--you just press a button (or some combination of buttons) in a modern video game and you get an effect of some kind for your character. With some of the class bonus actions I've seen--rage, second wind, for example--there is no narrative component. You simply say "I am raging" and get an effect. Those kinds of powers didn't exist in older versions of the game.

I'm not dismissing those 5e features, but they are a component of the rules that I have found to be a bit unimaginative.

You can play it that way and many do but you can also give narrative weight to all of these actions. Think Hong Kong martial arts movies or action anime. Though the anime is often much more stylised.

 

[Stormonu]

That's interesting. I used that analogy because--in my observation--you just press a button (or some combination of buttons) in a modern video game and you get an effect of some kind for your character. With some of the class bonus actions I've seen--rage, second wind, for example--there is no narrative component. You simply say "I am raging" and get an effect. Those kinds of powers didn't exist in older versions of the game.

I'm not dismissing those 5e features, but they are a component of the rules that I have found to be a bit unimaginative.

They were there - "I cast Magic Missile" was certainly one of them. So was "I swing my sword"
There's only no narrative component if you don't use it in the first place.

 

[TheSword]

1. As a player it allows me to play the character I envision in my mind and inspires me with new ideas for characters.

2. As a DM it lets me easily construct satisfying encounters quickly and easily.

3, It’s simple but not too simple.

4. It cuts out a lot of un-fun things.

5. It manages to be both nostalgic and innovative. A heady combo.

6. It focuses on producing adventures rather than rules bloat.

 

[jayoungr]

What is it about this particular rule set and edition that makes it so fun?

Many players in my group are about your age and go back to AD&D in their play experience. They really lit up when we first tried 5E because they said it felt like 2E (their favorite overall) but with cleaned-up math. By that, they mean things like ascending AC instead of THAC0.

 

[GothmogIV]

In my "What I would do differently" doc. from the last 5e campaign I ran (like two years ago), I have "players must narrate bonus actions" as a (future) house rule.

 

[jayoungr]

Also, if you think 5E has too many options/choices, you can always stick to just the original PHB. (And, did you ever try 3.X?? It has many more options.)

 

[Morrus]

I'm not dismissing those 5e features, but they are a component of the rules that I have found to be a bit unimaginative.

And that is literally a dad telling his kid what's wrong with music today.

And, more importantly, it's what your dad thought about your music.

There's no getting round it. There's no secret hidden answer which makes you different to the other 2 billion dads on the planet. You don't like the music kids listen to today. Breaking news at 11!

If you're hoping to find some other hidden insight in this thread, I suspect you're out of luck. Because, like I said before, it's not the game. It's you.

(I don't like the music kids listen to today either, and I think the 80s had the best movies, and they don't make TV shows like that any more; I don't mind 5E though it can be a bit too Harry Potter for me these days).