Explain why DMPCs are bad to me.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I decline to use the term "DMPC" in the specific way you are demanding I use it.

Well, personally, I decline to use the term "DMPC" at all. There are PC's, run by players, and NPC's run by the DM. The shopkeep is an NPC, and the sorceror/rogue aiding the PC's on their current quest is an NPC. There is no difference. Each serves one purpose only, which is to move the game along, and make it more fun for the players (and therefore, by extension, for me). When I hear the term "DMPC" the only connotation it has is the unkillable PC's that DM's have placed in parties with us for the sole purpose of upstaging the party (though the DM's in question would never admit to it). In that sense, the DMPC is a symptom of bad DM'ing.

 

[MojoGM]

<DM Turbo-Rant Mode On>

Frankly, everyone who plays D&D should spend half of their time running games as a DM.

I'll say that again.

Everyone who plays D&D should spend half of their time running games as a DM.

<DM Turbo-Rant Mode Off>

I couldn't agree more. I'd go even further, but that is a topic for another thread...

I've used DMNPCs in the past, and I feel they work better with a small group where one of the roles needs to be filled.

We played Spelljammer for about 8 years with myself running and two players, plus a DMNPC. Occasionally we'd have an additional guest, but mostly it was just the three of us. It worked fine.

It all depends on your group and play style I suppose.

 

[Brimshack]

Well, personally, I decline to use the term "DMPC" at all. There are PC's, run by players, and NPC's run by the DM. The shopkeep is an NPC, and the sorceror/rogue aiding the PC's on their current quest is an NPC. There is no difference. Each serves one purpose only, which is to move the game along, and make it more fun for the players (and therefore, by extension, for me). When I hear the term "DMPC" the only connotation it has is the unkillable PC's that DM's have placed in parties with us for the sole purpose of upstaging the party (though the DM's in question would never admit to it). In that sense, the DMPC is a symptom of bad DM'ing.

As the term DMPC can and has been used many times to denote characters who are not killable, and who have not been used in such a manner, your insistence on this "connotation" is less than reasonable. If it is often used in such a manner, then so are quite a few "NPCs." You lay the weight of bad DMing on a term which is neither sufficient nor necessary to establish the abusive style of play which you describe. Is this refusing to use the word? No. It's confounding two distinct concepts in a single word and obscuring the full range of possible approaches to the game.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

<DM Turbo-Rant Mode On>

You know, DMs wouldn't even need to run DMPCs if there weren't so many gamers out there who want to PLAY the game, but never want to do the WORK of running a game of their own.

Did it ever occur to any of you DMPC haters out there that maybe after spending hours and hours of prep time, and hundreds and hundreds of dollars on books, adventures and miniatures, that the DM just might like to be PART OF THE GAME and not just your own personal World-of-Warcraft-substitute, thanklessly running encounters so that you and the other players can have the fun of "dinging" another level?

Name any other social situation where someone makes an effort to prepare a fun activity for a group of friends, only to have people complain when they actually try to join in on the fun? Think about spending a week planning a party for all of your friends, (food! games! decorations! party favors!) and when the party actually starts they all turn to you and say "what the heck are YOU doing here?"

If a Dm's DMPC is really bugging you, why don't you offer to run the game for a while so he or she can PLAY? Don't want to run the game? Then shut the flumph up about the DMPC.

Frankly, everyone who plays D&D should spend half of their time running games as a DM.

I'll say that again.

Everyone who plays D&D should spend half of their time running games as a DM.

If your time as a DM is close to zero, if you're playing and playing and NEVER doing any of the work, then you've got NO RIGHT complaining about how a DM runs his game, or the fact that he chooses to let his or her own PC join in the fun.

You don't like the DMs DMPC?

Run a game for him to play in, or go find another game.

<DM Turbo-Rant Mode Off>

Jeff Spicoli : AWESOME, TOTALLY AWESOME!!

 

[James Heard]

I think the truest test of any DMPC is when a party member falls in combat if the GM is willing to hand that extra character over to the character-less player and let them run it through for the rest of the game. If they can't/won't do it, then it's likely they've got too much ownership and investment in the character to run it properly, and the players should kill it at the earliest possible opportunity. Game masters run MONSTERS, how can you trust those dudes?

And yeah, I ran games for years and years until fairly recently when other RL concerns moved me apart from my group. I don't think I can recall having a DMPC since I was in middle school in the 80s though, because even then I realized that it was probably a bad, bad idea. If I want to impart crucial plot information to the party I'll invent a crotchety old sage with a heart of gold, a benevolent priestly mentor, notorious contacts in the underworld, a sergeant or officer of the guard who apparently knows which modules I've read before he chats with the PCs, or let the players blow through XP with divinations. I don't need to make up a plucky sidekick or run their daddies taking care of the players in their fights. I don't need an additional character to filter information or protect them, because when I'm running a game I control the information and the dice already. Why even dabble in such an abusable situation?

 

[QuaziquestGM]

When I have to run a party member NPC I try to follow a few general rules:

1: I try to fill a need that he party has. If the party has no healer....
2: I try to make it in at least some small way a burden as well as an accet. She is a Adept, inept at combat, with eneimies
3: I try to keep the party from powergaming or using game mechanic knowledged to determine its complete capabilities and usefulness in all situations. Multiclass, classmix never revealed. Adept spirit shamans really keep them guessing for a while.
4: I give the party a reason to bring it along. The 15 y.o. runaway "magic girl" with healing skills that the bard shot because she didn't come out from behind the bush when you approached her out in the middle of nowhere.....A good aligned party sort of feels obligated to take her along.
5: Doesn't hog the spot light. She is important in every encounter, because you have to get her to heal you afterwards...
6: i use them to introduce plot elements. If "witch hunters" are active in an area killing spell casters who are not aligned with their church..... I make the npc have its own plot that is no more important that the plots of the rest of the party. Of course, often some of the players didn't make a backstroy for their pcs, so the goals of the npc can give the party a sence of direction. the Dwarf pc wants a mine, the paladin wants the slay evil dragons, the wizard and rogue are along for the ride, the npc healer wants to belong and is on the run from witch hunters...the party as reasons to exist and travel together and has a backstory that affects the plot.
7: the npc acts in its own defence, but it is up to the party to maintain it. it is a party resourse. healer girl defends herself, but she isn't that good at it. No armour profency, uses most of her prepared spell slots on healing spells. If the party doesn't defend her then they will lose her, same as their pack animals.
8: it has a personality. i don't use her to make stragedy suggestions, but she does get miffed..."but i healed you 2 hours ago....why do you keep getting into fights?"

I wouldn't hand off a npc with plot information to a new player. A new player needs to make his own character.

 

[fusangite]

Random shopkeeps, villains, ingenues, sages, kings, nobles, corrupt guard captains, guild leaders, itinerant priests, and so forth, are all NPCs, but not DMPCs.

The functional omission from the acronym DMPC is the omission of an "N", implying nothing more that giving the character a status or position similar to a PC.

This is an excellent point and is at the core of my objection to both the term and the practice.

Most RPGs tilt the balance of power heavily towards the DM already. The idea of a DMPC is an unnecessary further infringement on the power of the players in your standard RPG dynamic. It robs the players both of good narrative moments (such as when the DMPC gets to deal a killing blow) and of decision-making power.

Long-term NPCs are great. But they should be NPCs.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

If there's a good reason for a DMPC, then by all means go for it.

But if the DM wants a PC in his game, then he needs to decide if he's a DM or a player and then accept that role.

Beyond that, the amount of time a DM spends working on his DMPC can be put to better use making the adventure better instead.

 

[Elf Witch]

<DM Turbo-Rant Mode On>

You know, DMs wouldn't even need to run DMPCs if there weren't so many gamers out there who want to PLAY the game, but never want to do the WORK of running a game of their own.

Did it ever occur to any of you DMPC haters out there that maybe after spending hours and hours of prep time, and hundreds and hundreds of dollars on books, adventures and miniatures, that the DM just might like to be PART OF THE GAME and not just your own personal World-of-Warcraft-substitute, thanklessly running encounters so that you and the other players can have the fun of "dinging" another level?

Name any other social situation where someone makes an effort to prepare a fun activity for a group of friends, only to have people complain when they actually try to join in on the fun? Think about spending a week planning a party for all of your friends, (food! games! decorations! party favors!) and when the party actually starts they all turn to you and say "what the heck are YOU doing here?"

If a Dm's DMPC is really bugging you, why don't you offer to run the game for a while so he or she can PLAY? Don't want to run the game? Then shut the flumph up about the DMPC.

Frankly, everyone who plays D&D should spend half of their time running games as a DM.

I'll say that again.

Everyone who plays D&D should spend half of their time running games as a DM.

If your time as a DM is close to zero, if you're playing and playing and NEVER doing any of the work, then you've got NO RIGHT complaining about how a DM runs his game, or the fact that he chooses to let his or her own PC join in the fun.

You don't like the DMs DMPC?

Run a game for him to play in, or go find another game.

<DM Turbo-Rant Mode Off>

So just because you run the game gives you the right to suck all the fun out of it for everybody else?

Using your example a badly run DMPC is like inviting your friends over to a karoke party and never once allowing them to have the mike. They are forced to sit there and watch you preform.

I have been in games where DMs have had NPCs join the party and it was great even when I had the sneaking suspicion that the NPC was a character that the DM really wanted to play. What made it work is that they were a part of the party and we never felt that we just there to play back up to the NPC. They could die just as easily as one of us they didn't have all the answers and they never tried to lead the party.

But they were a pleasure to have a around they often spoke just the right words to help us solve the puzzle that we couldn't figure out on our own.

A good DMPC needs to be played with a subtle hand.

I have also been in game where I wanted to strangle the DMPC and the DM. One example is we were trying to figure out a poem that a bad guy had left. We worked on it and thought we had it figured out but we wrong because we were missing one vital piece of infomation that the DMPC knew and held back so he was the one that solved the puzzle we never had a chance because we didn't know all the facts.

Nobody likes playing in a game where they never get any spotlight or a chance to shine where you are nothing but a cohort regardless if its another PC doing it or DMPC

 

[haakon1]

the DM just might like to be PART OF THE GAME

I agree and I usually have DMPCs (2 of 3 games I run), but . . . I recruited my players because I love the game -- I wasn't drafted.