Explain why DMPCs are bad to me.

[Dragonbait]

I also think that the question of an overpowered DMPC(orNPC) depends a little on how much it's used... I recall a few times being quite relieved to find that a certain powerful NPC was going to help us in a tough situation, only to be disgusted x number of games later when the NPC was still with us and still central to resolution of every problem.

Great point.

c) give it the same chance of dying or failing as a PC has. This is important. The NPC can't get preferential treatment, nor can it be always asked to "take one for the team" (though the players always like it when by random roll it's the NPC who gets squashed by the falling rock...)

Sometimes you just have to lie and say that your DMNPC failed on a roll just to make the PCs feel better.

 

[kenobi65]

I'm wondering if you are weird or if I am the only one who caught the allusion to Gandalf.

Nah, I just totally missed the Gandalf allusion.

IME, the bad DMPCs are either:
a) The DM's dream character (i.e., Mary Sue), or
b) The DM's dream date.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Add this:
5) If the Players start metagaming and look to the PCNPC for ideas, answers, and plans without figuring things out for themselves.

I've experienced all those situations. DMPCs are not a bad idea when in small groups, but DMPCs are rarely executed well. I've seen all sorts, bit good and bad. I'm in a game right now where the DMNPC fills out possibilities 1-3, and 5. His character was supposed to be filling a gap in the group, but now does more damage than the combat-oriented characters, is the best warrior, and is seen as being the second group leader (and his plans always succeed, whereas mine have about a 50/50 chance of working. That makes things fun, though). I've been in games where the DMNPC was rather minor, and never seen as any kind of threat to the PC's screen time. I've seen a DM who had a "NPC of the week" and his favorite did everything one of the PCs did, but better (he broke the rules of the game to do it). I've been in games where the GM openly admitted that only his NPCs are interesting, and he could not think of any ideas involving the PCs. I've even been in a game where the DM had 8 DMPCs and forgot about the players during the combat for 10 minutes!

So, to reiterate, DMPCs are fine, but rarely executed well.

Having read that I feel your pain. Those cases sound like DM suckage, big time.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I've been playing and DMing since the early 80's and almost every DM that I've played under has had NPC's as part of the party. I've never had to deal with a scene stealing NPC, or maybe some of the stuff that people consider scene stealing is stuff that I dont.

As noted by GKJ3 and others, then most likely you have never had to deal with a DMPC. A DMPC is not just an NPC.

Most importantly, this is NOT edition-specific. Like most others, I've been playing for a long time, too, and I've had DM's running DMPC's that were quite annoying. I noticed it quickly and therefore I did my best never to make a similar mistake (in any of the many editions I played).

I think GKJ3 explained it the best. Basically, I think DMPC is derogatory and should remain so. If an NPC that the DM runs takes over the spotlight to the detriment of the game, steals scenes, etc., then the NPC is really a DMPC. If what you think as a DMPC (say an actually PC of the DM in a revolving-DM group) doesn't do all that, then I'd call him an NPC during that period, not a DMPC.

It's all about semantics and how you want to define it.

 

[Endur]

To sum up, the only bad experiences I have had with DMPCs were in games with (what I consider to be) bad DMs.

I agree. The only bad experiences cited in this thread are bad dming experiences.

I will add something more. That different DMs have different skill sets. And that some DMs who are very good at some things, may make mistakes in different areas.

So the concept of the DMPC is not necessarily bad, but it may be a concept that requires a more skillful DM to handle, or it may be a concept that more DMs make mistakes on.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I used DM PC's when necessary for filling out the party if they are missing a class. However they don't usually contribute a ton of stuff to the group, they stay in the background for the most part, the only time I normally use them for party interaction stuff is to drop zingers on the other guys.

 

[Psion]

I used DM PC's when necessary for filling out the party if they are missing a class. However they don't usually contribute a ton of stuff to the group, they stay in the background for the most part, the only time I normally use them for party interaction stuff is to drop zingers on the other guys.

I use them for backstabbing spies that betray the party in the final scene... er, I mean, yeah, I do what you do.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

DMPCs are just NPCs who happen to be part of the PCs adventuring group.

I'm not totally sure what the definition of a DMPC is, but from my perspective that isn't it. In fact, I was about to ask what the definition of a DMPC was. There's a distinction between an NPC travelling with the party who isn't controlled by a player, and an NPC who has preferential knowledge of the world and exists to one-up the PC's.

I've seen plenty of each, and each is pretty immediately identifiable as such in play.

 

[rvalle]

First, I think there is a big differance between a NPC that runs with the party and a 'DMPC'.

I have a few NPC's that I use in our WLD game to help fill out the party when needed. Now that the party is getting to be higher level (8 now and 9 soon) I've desided to keep these guys back a few levels. So they will always be 1-3 levels behind the party. This should keep them usefull but avoid them from hogging the spot light.

As I told the players when they wanted one of the NPC's to cast a higher level spell for them... This is a story/game about YOU, not the NPC's.

rv

 

[Psion]

First, I think there is a big differance between a NPC that runs with the party and a 'DMPC'.

I don't.