D&D 5E [+]Exploration Falls Short For Many Groups, Let’s Talk About It

[Micah Sweet]

Hate Exhaustion. Unfun.

Starting to wonder what kind of experience you're looking for out of exploration. As has been said, you need constraints to make challenge meaningful, and WotC 5e has very few. If you reject the ones it does have, what exactly are you looking for?

 

[Micah Sweet]

True, but I've never come across any that are so good that they couldn't be improved by tweaking to the preferences of my group.

Great. Tweak away! I don't see a problem here.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes. But that makes the threat of it a major thing players will work hard to avoid.

Unless they always avoid it, which basically means it doesn't exist. If you don't follow through on a threat it's meaningless.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In the spirit of the thread, exhaustion is essential. It is one of the few conditions that lasts longer than the encounter it is obtained and can last for multiple days, essential in situations where the party only has 1 or 2 encounters per day.

Which goes back to my solution to the OP’s conundrum:
1. Encounters that apply conditions (new or existing) that last longer than the encounter;
2. Rejig the entries in the exhaustion table so DMs are more willing to use them.

I will brave @Hussar 's wrath and mention that Level Up's Fatigue & Strife system is a good alternative to WotC 5e's Exhaustion mechanic.

 

[Minigiant]

This assumes that all old fans want the DM to decide everything and not have rules.

Not all.

But there are more than you think. Grognard D&D media is full of little rules, heavy ruling, DM decides everything, players don't question just react, opinions.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In the spirit of the thread, exhaustion is essential. It is one of the few conditions that lasts longer than the encounter it is obtained and can last for multiple days, essential in situations where the party only has 1 or 2 encounters per day.

Which goes back to my solution to the OP’s conundrum:
1. Encounters that apply conditions (new or existing) that last longer than the encounter;

Yeah this is a huge gap in the current game. Even stuff like reduced speed really sucks. Make getting rid of it require a short rest or magical healing, at least

2. Rejig the entries in the exhaustion table so DMs are more willing to use them.

Exhaustion rules that don’t jump immediately to stuff a lot of DMs don’t want to use would help, for sure.

Making long rests:

• only restore spell slot levels equal to your level or something (spell slots being kinda the only significant long rest feature that is significant and has high enough numbers to make it easy to only restore some of)
• only restore half your total health (still half your total HD) automatically
• require spending HD the end of the rest to get more HP back
• Possibly introduce some sort of recharge mechanic for 1/LR abilities, so you aren’t guaranteed to get it back
• A long rest of at least two days in a safe place restores everything.

And oh hey, you don’t need to shoehorn ambushes during long rest in order to challenge the party (you already don’t. I challenge parties just fine and I never use sleep-ambushes unless there is a story reason for it, like there are assassins trying to kill you)

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah no. I always design wilderness combat encounters based on the assumption that the party is at full strength. But pure combat encounters are a pretty dull option in any case. People explore to find amazing things, not to get into a fight with an angry antelope.

Attrition based gameplay is another thing that aint fun.

Could you at least throw an "IMO" in there? Your declarative statements about what isn't fun fairly apply only to you. Please don't assume objectivity in your opinions.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not all.

But there are more than you think. Grognard D&D media is full of little rules, heavy ruling, DM decides everything, players don't question just react, opinions.

So what? Is your answer to this "give up"? If it is, there's no more for either of us to say. Otherwise we keep fighting to let more people have the game they want.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I should note, I don’t interact much with challenge on the attrition axis in 5e, and I don’t use it to make exploration engaging. Most people I know don’t find that engaging, they just find it annoying.

I make travel, survival, exploration in the normal usage, engaging by presenting opportunities and consequences if you reach for those opportunities and fail.

I also find that doing the above leads to less avoidance of spending time in the wild or whatever. Teleport is for when you need to get to another city right now because allies you made back when you didn’t have such spells are in peril and oh hey! Just as they face a kaiju rampagng toward thier walls, I’ve learnt to transport us all across the continent instantly, once per day!

Aside: I do also think that high level casting should be weirder, riskier, more limited, and stay exactly as powerful as it is in terms of a given spell.
Like, make all spells of 6 level or higher only ever have 1 spell slot per day or make each spell slot above 5th level require a recharge roll or a roll to see how many you get back when you rest, or both.

Make the player roll to avoid Those What Walk Between when casting plane shift or Magnificent Mansion or any other spell that involves demiplanes or crossing between planes.

Employ things like the Encounter Die roll I mentioned upthread or clocks or something more to higher level spells, where you risk danger every time you use them, or every hour you spend in a foreign plane without a planar anchor, etc.

D&D magic Is epic and miraculous and weird, and removing that makes the game poorer, but making it also dangerous and hard and slow to recharge, makes the game richer.

 

[Minigiant]

So what? Is your answer to this "give up"? If it is, there's no more for either of us to say. Otherwise we keep fighting to let more people have the game they want.

Ignore them or wait toage them out.

The harsh truth is they don't play modern D&D so they don't buy product. They only hurt sales via bad press. The majority of 5e players are under 45 and prefer clear rules, variants, and examples.