D&D 5E [+]Exploration Falls Short For Many Groups, Let’s Talk About It

[payn]

I should note, I don’t interact much with challenge on the attrition axis in 5e, and I don’t use it to make exploration engaging. Most people I know don’t find that engaging, they just find it annoying.

I make travel, survival, exploration in the normal usage, engaging by presenting opportunities and consequences if you reach for those opportunities and fail.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Ignore them or wait toage them out.

The harsh truth is they don't play modern D&D so they don't buy product. They only hurt sales via bad press. The majority of 5e players are under 45 and prefer clear rules, variants, and examples.

Just to play Devil's Advocate (because I love doing that), do you have evidence that your claim about most 5e players is true? The non-age part in particular.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Starting to wonder what kind of experience you're looking for out of exploration. As has been said, you need constraints to make challenge meaningful, and WotC 5e has very few. If you reject the ones it does have, what exactly are you looking for?

One where players encounter interesting stuff without having to deal with the sort of management nonsense they deal with in their real lives.

 

[Irlo]

@Micah Sweet
My group isn’t interested in adopting a new player-facing rule set. Are the Level Up exploration rules suited to implement while retaining the 5e class and skill framework? If so, I will want to check it out.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Just to play Devil's Advocate (because I love doing that), do you have evidence that your claim about most 5e players is true? The non-age part in particular.

Well the under 45 bit is definitely true, and with any new player of any age or period examples are always useful. That's a big deal when designing textbooks. You need to give plenty of clear examples, but you also need to include room for the theory. In the past, providing examples was often left to the teacher (which you quite likely don't have when learning D&D); these days textbooks often come with additional online material, particularly examples. I would suggest that would be the way to go for D&D.

I can't speak for clear rules, or variants, but I don't see why anything would have changed with regards to those areas since the 1970s. Maybe the greater number of non-geeks playing leads to less interest in minutiae?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

@Micah Sweet
My group isn’t interested in adopting a new player-facing rule set. Are the Level Up exploration rules suited to implement while retaining the 5e class and skill framework? If so, I will want to check it out.

I don't own it, but I'm pretty sure Level Up is designed to be modular.

 

[Minigiant]

Just to play Devil's Advocate (because I love doing that), do you have evidence that your claim about most 5e players is true? The non-age part in particular.

D&D social media and kickstarters are majority more rules heavy and rules precise.

Just look at A5e, MCDM, DC20, & TOTV.

 

[Micah Sweet]

One where players encounter interesting stuff without having to deal with the sort of management nonsense they deal with in their real lives.

What game is that, and does it have any relationship to D&D?

 

[Micah Sweet]

@Micah Sweet
My group isn’t interested in adopting a new player-facing rule set. Are the Level Up exploration rules suited to implement while retaining the 5e class and skill framework? If so, I will want to check it out.

Yes, they are. The exploration rules in A5e can absolutely be used in isolation to the PC-facing rules.

 

[Quickleaf]

Ignore them or wait toage them out.

The harsh truth is they don't play modern D&D so they don't buy product. They only hurt sales via bad press. The majority of 5e players are under 45 and prefer clear rules, variants, and examples.

Umm...it's me! I'm 43, love D&D, love many RPGs, and I do actively GM 5e as much as my schedule allows – currently that takes the form of GMing a Play-by-Post Rime of the Frostmaiden, and last summer I introduced my nephew and his friends to 5e with nine sessions, and now he's off to the races with D&D club at school. Over the last two years I've GMed six 5e one-shots, typically with players younger than me and often introducing some new players to the game.

Last print gaming products I bought were Wild Beyond the Witchlight (5e, WotC), Dungeon Delver's Guide (A5e but fair amount is system neutral, ENPublishing), and The Monster Overhaul (OSR/Basic, Skerples).

I'm a selective buyer, but if WotC puts out quality products (I've been unimpressed recently), the product interests me, and uh, you know we're not actively boycotting their parent corporation for being up to no good shenanigans, I'd buy more.

I embrace and understand that there will always going to be rulings because that's one of the strengths of TTRPGs - having a live GM. I think the effort to elucidate in painstaking detail usually leads to overwritten rules that slow down rule-skills acquisition for players and GMs. However, effort and thoughtfulness for clarity and conciseness in rules writing is appreciated.

I do not expect players to "live with my rules or get out", rather when we hit a grey area (that I don't have house rules for) I actively negotiate with players, ask for their feedback, or make a proposal and see what they think. And adoption of house rules is also a conversation.