Failed promises

[Storm Raven]

I believe this is a reasonable conflation of the statements here. Feel free to decide which ones are reasonable positions, which ones are poppycock, and how some of you might reconcile either with what you've been saying.

Can I just declare your post poppycock so the discussion can get back on track?

 

[Prince Atom]

I can't think of any books I've ever bought that I just thought stunk, but here's a list of books that I picked up, read (or leafed) through once, and haven't picked up again...

Deities & Demigods (meh)
Return to the Temple etc.
GURPS Voodoo
GURPS Faerie
GURPS Spirits
RIFTS
Palladium Fantasy

On a related note, I have been highly disappointed with the quality of the binding in GURPS 4th edition. I haven't had my Basic Set: Characters for a year, and it's already falling apart! The old stuff is much better bound; and really, I could do without the gloss paper and full-color art.

Now, some folks on this discussion might say that I should have considered the quality of the binding before I paid for it. I think this is a legitimate complaint, because their prior quality of construction led me to believe that their new line would be just as well-bound. Before anyone says that I can't compare softbound books (i.e., GURPS High-Tech) to hardbound books (GURPS Basic Set, 4th Edition), I'd like to say that my hard-bound GURPS Basic Set, 3rd Edition, Revised has taken a lot more thumbing-through, and I haven't even broken the spine or torn a page!

Sacrificing quality of books for flash and glamour is not a good choice. If it comes down to my having to buy another Basic Set because my old one fell apart under treatment that my other books have taken for years (quite mild treatment, I daresay), then I'm afraid Steve Jackson might have to do without any more of my money.

TWK

 

[d20Dwarf]

Unless, say, you were one of the writers of a product that was being bashed.....

That's what I was thinking. But, one thing I can't do is make people smarter.

 

[Storm Raven]

Unless, say, you were one of the writers of a product that was being bashed.....

Saying "I was disappointed with a product" is not being uncivil.

 

[Pants]

That's what I was thinking. But, one thing I can't do is make people smarter.

I've heard that a shovel works marvellously in situations like these...

 

[d20Dwarf]

Saying "I was disappointed with a product" is not being uncivil.

No, but ranting irrationally about one for pages on end just makes you an internet kook.

 

[Psion]

I've read a WHOLE lot of "What is an RPG" blurbs in my time, and I can't think of one that says "RPGs are a game with a winner and a loser." In fact, I can't think of one that *didn't* say "RPGs aren't a game with a winner and a loser." So when I hear "Midnight can't be beat" it makes me wonder if the person's talking about a computer game or something.

I think you are conflating two different things here. I think that you and I both know that when we speak of winners and losers, we speak of participants as adversaries, which in an RPG they typically are not. That says little to nothing about whether or not you can prevail against the villain of the setting in your lifetime. That's not a participant adversary situation; that's a setting design choice.

It's just a preference. I deal with the same thing when I hear people complain they can't change anything on the galactic stage in a huge setting like Traveller. But it's as valid a preference as any.

 

[Storm Raven]

No, but ranting irrationally about one for pages on end just makes you an internet kook.

I'm only really seeing one person doing that.

 

[d20Dwarf]

I'm only really seeing one person doing that.

Ok.

 

[d20Dwarf]

I think you are conflating two different things here. I think that you and I both know that when we speak of winners and losers, we speak of participants as adversaries, which in an RPG they typically are not. That says little to nothing about whether or not you can prevail against the villain of the setting in your lifetime. That's not a participant adversary situation; that's a setting design choice.

It's just a preference. I deal with the same thing when I hear people complain they can't change anything on the galactic stage in a huge setting like Traveller. But it's as valid a preference as any.

I don't believe settings establish villains to be overcome; adventures do that.