Fair trade? Rogue's sneak attack for bard spellcasting progression

[Gnome]

I'm thinking a rogue varian who can cast sneaky spells would be fun. Does it sound balanced to trade the sneak attack progression for the bard spellcasting progression? I'd tweak the actual spell list a bit, and make it INT-based, but it would be about the same power level (i.e. no fireballs or the like), and top-out at 6th-level, just like bard spells.

Unearthed Arcana gives a variant fighter and rogue where they trade the 10 bonus fighter feats for sneak attack, or vice versa. So, I guess that means sneak attack is worth 10 feats. The question that remains is how many feats is the bardic spellcasting progression worth?

 

[whydirt]

I'd say it's a fair trade. Comparing this variant Rogue to the Bard, the Rogue would have a few more skills, but loses out on a good Will save and the other Bard abilities.

I think the real balancing factor would be the spell list.

 

[Ahnehnois]

It's fine, but only if there are no powerful offensive spells (including non-damage ones like hold or slow). But that is your stated intent so I'd say it's fine. A rogue w/o SA needs big compensation.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Sounds good. Just don't add fireball to the spell list.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Yeah, that's fine, depending on spell list, of course. No area effect evocations, if any evocations at all. Flashy necromancy and undead creation is out, but fear effects could be perfect. I'd imagine illusions and transmutations would be at the top of the list. I'd steer clear of enchantment, despite its appropriateness, so that you don't stomp all over the role of the bard.

Hmm. Actually, this has me wanting to create a rogue spell list now.

 

[Vraister]

Sounds good to me.
Just steal from the Assassin spell list.

Vraister

 

[Terath Ninir]

Sounds good to me.
Just steal from the Assassin spell list.

Vraister

I plan on doing just that when I do this, too. It's only levels 1-4, but I imagine most of it will make my cut.

This idea has me psyched. Heh heh. More weird villians to fling at the PCs!

 

[Gnome]

Hey, if you're really going to make the spell list, please share it when you're done if you get a chance. My other ideas to go with this variant rogue are:

* Unlike the bard, light armor still causes arcane spell failure chances

* A bluff check can be used to mute (but not eliminate) verbal components, so that others would only hear the spell being cast with an opposed listen roll. This would be useful when casting spells while spying or the like. Maybe this would cause the spellcasting to become a full-round action (like a sorceror using metamagic).

* An escape artist check can be used to cast a spell when bound or otherwise restricted in movement (but not completely paralyzed). Not sure how to set the DC on the escape artist check, however. This would be another full-round action.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Okay, I'll post mine when I get it done. Not sure how long that will take, though.

I think I would have the rogue-mage be able to cast in light armor. I'd have to either reduce skill points, or knock special abilities back in level. Maybe both. I like your casting abilities, too, which would definitely require abilities to be knocked back.

I really like this idea.

 

[Crothian]

These aren't even. Bard spells are way better then sneak attack.