Fairly radical new combat rules

[radferth]

You might want to check out the Conan rules. Each character class has progression in Attack, Parry, and Dodge. Your "AC" is figured off of you Parry or Dodge, as you choose. Generally Parry works out better for heavily armored folks, while dodge is better for quicker ones. Armor works as DR, and weapon have an AP stat that helps them get through armor. I forget exactly how it all meshes, but I remember the overall effect seemed pretty close to what you are going for.

 

[Lobo Lurker]

Another power alternative I was thinking was to make it add a random amount of damage to attacks: (1dPower). So having 10 power would add 1d10 damage to each hit. This essentially cuts it's effectiveness in half, but still gives benefit from each individual point of power. Only problem is the lack of dice (1d5? 1d7?). Easy fix if you just use a random # generator though.

Power vs. Die size
1 = 1
2 = d2
3 = d3 (D6 1-2=1, 3-4=2, 5-6=3)
4 = d4
5 = d6-1 (minimum 1)
6 = d6
7 = d8-1 (minimum 1)
8 = d8
9 = d10-1 (minimum 1 damage)
10 = d10
11 = d12-1 (minimum 1)
12 = d12
13 = d12+1
14 = d10+d4
15 = 2d8-1 (minimum 2)
16 = 2d8
17 = 2d8+1
18 = 3d6
19 = 3d6+1
20 = 3d6+2 (2d10 would work here as well... average damage is the same but minimum damage is less... so I just continued with the d6s).

 

[genshou]

Also, no one seems to have addressed size modifiers as they relate to this combat system. I'd imagine that an ogre wouldn't be all that quick or accurate but he'd hit really, really hard (more mass... remember, all things being equal in a fist fight, the larger man will win). Conversly, a halfling wouldn't really hit all that hard, but he'd likely be harder to hit. He'd also suffer from a reduced reach.

That is already covered in the core rules. Creatures have a size modifier to attack rolls, AC, and Hide checks, and increases or decreases in size affect hit dice; natural armor; and Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, and face/reach. Also, larger or smaller creatures use different sizes of weapons.

I think the only additional size rule in this alternate system that needs to be addressed is a change in a weapon's "reach" quality. An ogre wielding a short sword still benefits phenomenally from its 10-foot reach, and that needs to somehow be covered in the statistical modifiers. A halfling wielding a longsword may have slightly shorter reach than a human with a longsword. As for the other things you've described... they already exist in the statistics of those creatures, so there's no need for modification (adding a greater Power attribute to a creature with higher Str and damage dice is not necessary).

 

[genshou]

Thanks for more feedback. I am a bit weary about the power stat, although it doesn't really start 'breaking down' the game until after 10th level. Think about it: if an opponent is wearing full plate (DR 9), then a power of 10 only adds +1 damage.

That is true... but shouldn't full plate be DR 8? Anyway, numerical specifics aside, the average soldier is a 1st-level Warrior, meaning their Power stat could be +1 at best. That makes a longbowman deal 1d8+1 damage, which means a hailstorm of arrows would be pretty much useless against a knight with full plate (DR 8). So, one character could be the target of hundreds of arrows and suffer almost no damage. The nice thing about standard D&D and it's AC bonus from armor is that it can be overcome by a good attack roll instead of damage. That way, you can get a good shot in and hit the weak spots in the armor, such as around joints and where the helmet meets the shoulder plates. Now granted, having an AC of 19 (full plate 8 +1 Dex) does make you impervious to most 1st-level Warriors' attacks, but you're still screwed if you're the target of 200 longbowmen. I'm not saying your system is entirely unrealistic, but it only takes one lucky arrow hitting between armor plates to do a significant damage (critical hit or not).

Also, what about monsters, who won't get the benefit of armor DR? Doing massive damage against a purple worm is something every melee combatant would like to do, and they have no counter for it.

Another power alternative I was thinking was to make it add a random amount of damage to attacks: (1dPower). So having 10 power would add 1d10 damage to each hit. This essentially cuts it's effectiveness in half, but still gives benefit from each individual point of power. Only problem is the lack of dice (1d5? 1d7?). Easy fix if you just use a random # generator though.

I don't know which is the "right" answer–you'll have to playtest both and see which works best. I do think having Power grant a random benefit per attack keeps with the fluid damage system D&D has.

Really? I would have thought that defense and attack would be the most desirable, since they let you actually HIT the opponent, and prevent them from hitting you. At least in the games I've played, +1 to hit has always been better than +1 damage. Maybe this is the case in higher level games? In that case, I've never played such a campaign.

Generally, having a +n better chance to hit gives higher average damage outputs per round than a +n bonus to damage, but against lower-AC foes, the opposite is far truer.

Well, in my last post, I mentioned how I think stats should advance: each time your BaB increases, you get 1-3 points to increase stats with (depending on BaB progression). However, no single stat can be higher than your BaB would be at that level.

Sorry, I missed that rule on my first read. Limiting it to the classes' BaB is good.

True in general. Two things however: (1), I was watching some show on TV (Extreme Martial Arts), and it was showing how someone wielding only 1 weapon has more agility and flexibility than someone wielding 2 (allowing them to dodge blows better, etc). So I find it plausible that a warrior who has trained to use a single weapon could be competative vs someone with a shield or 2nd weapon.

(2) even with these rules, I'm not trying to make DnD entirely "realistic" (since there is just no way you could do half the stuff in the game if it were to be realistic); and many fantasy heroes used only one weapon in one hand. So if someone's character concept requires him to use a single weapon, then I'd like to give him/her a way to realize that. Note that even with the feats I've given above, it is still cheaper (feat wise) just to use a shield. I should also mention that I use 2 feats that increase the AC from using shields, so the SWF feats above do not allow for greater AC than when using a shield + feats IMC.

With only one hand using a weapon, you can use the other hand for balance, which increases your agility and ability to recover. A small (no greater than shields) AC bonus is highly acceptable and entirely realistic. As you pointed out, it's generally better to have a shield, since it's better against ranged attacks and doesn't require a feat that you won't get for free anyway if you're intended to fight with a shield (without Shield Proficiency, you may suffer penalties, but you still get the AC/DR benefit).

 

[Baragos]

The system in Unearthed Arcana for Armor as DR is probably a good place to start.

Basically take the AC mod of the armor, halve it (rounding up) = new AC bonus. The remaining half (rounded down) = your DR. Shields are excempt and work as normal.

So a character (Dex 10) wearing full plate and a heavy shield will have +6 to AC and DR 4. Against a first-level warrior with a longbow (+2 to hit, 1d8 damage) he would take 0 (-3) to 4 points of damage with a 35% of being hit. On a crit (5%/35% chance) he would take 0 (-1) to 20 points of damage. So a knight against 24 archers would would result in around 10 points of damage (1/3 hitting), not counting criticals (criticals are easier to confirm than if the armor adds 8 points AC).

In the standard rules each archer would have 10% chance of hitting (5%/10% of critical) doing 1 to 8 points of damage. So those 24 archers would cause an average of 10.8 points of damage (again not counting crits and crits are less likely).

 

[General Barron]

Again, good points all. Sorry if this is sorta digging up an 'old' (1 week) thread, but I was on vacation last week, so I just now read the replies.

Creatures have a size modifier to attack rolls, AC, and Hide checks, and increases or decreases in size affect hit dice; natural armor; and Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, and face/reach. Also, larger or smaller creatures use different sizes of weapons.

Point taken.

Power vs. Die size
1 = 1
2 = d2
.... etc ....

Good system.

So, one character could be the target of hundreds of arrows and suffer almost no damage. The nice thing about standard D&D and it's AC bonus from armor is that it can be overcome by a good attack roll instead of damage. That way, you can get a good shot in and hit the weak spots in the armor, such as around joints and where the helmet meets the shoulder plates.

A valid point about armor, of course. The thought had occured to me as well. One thought I came up with would be to roll for DR each time someone is hit. So a DR of 4 would reduce the damage from each hit by 1d4.

It pretty much solves the problem, but it adds an extra die to roll, which might be a pain in the arse.

The Unearthed Arcana system looks pretty interesting too, and I'll have to check it out.

Also, what about monsters, who won't get the benefit of armor DR? Doing massive damage against a purple worm is something every melee combatant would like to do, and they have no counter for it.

Well, like I said, this system hasn't really taken monsters into account. In general, most large/powerful monsters already have good HP and natural AC's (which turns into DR under my system), and some even have 'regular' DR to boot. So I would think that, in general, monsters should remain at the same challenge/power they were before, but minor adjustments might be required. I'd have to check the MM to see if this is totally wrong though.

 

[Bagpuss]

Attack:This represents how good a character is at getting past an opponents defenses, and landing blows in combat. This is used just like the old BaB; the exceptions being where the below statistics take over some parts of BaB's former function. Attack is modified by Str.

Am I reading this right that Strength Mod give a bonus to even ranged attacks? Seems a bit odd.

 

[General Barron]

Am I reading this right that Strength Mod give a bonus to even ranged attacks? Seems a bit odd.

Yup, that's what I wrote, but not what I meant to write.

Attack and power attributes are supposed to be modified just like in the regular rules (i.e. modded by str for melee, attack modded by dex for ranged, and power modded by str for thrown weapons and certain bows).

 

[Shag]

This is now so far away from 3.5E you might just want to save yourself some time and play Ars Magica, cause this system is starting to look like it.