Odhanan
Adventurer
My advice: don't do it. It is, frankly, a very bad idea.
Fake TPKO ("It was only a dream")
- Thread starter Mercurius
- Start date
FireLance
Legend
Slightly off-topic, but I've always wanted to structure a campaign around the premise that everyone in the party has a recurring dream in which they battle some incredibly powerful monster.
At first, all of them should die rather quickly, but as they gain in power and learn more about the monster's abilities and tactics from fighting it, they should be able to survive for longer and eventually beat it.
At this point, I haven't decided whether it will be a prophetic dream sent by an ally to help them learn about the monster so that they can defeat it, or a misleading one sent by an enemy (perhaps the monster itself) so that they will be overconfident and prepared for all the wrong things when they meet it for real.
At first, all of them should die rather quickly, but as they gain in power and learn more about the monster's abilities and tactics from fighting it, they should be able to survive for longer and eventually beat it.
At this point, I haven't decided whether it will be a prophetic dream sent by an ally to help them learn about the monster so that they can defeat it, or a misleading one sent by an enemy (perhaps the monster itself) so that they will be overconfident and prepared for all the wrong things when they meet it for real.
DumbPaladin
First Post
You're right to be worried. This could be extremely alienating.
The writer in me says it will come off as some degree of a bad gimmick to your players -- one they may enjoy, one they may detest, or most gravely, one that may cause them to question your DM writing skills. Never a good gambit to take.
The player in me would feel awful after it was all said and done -- I'd be glad I wasn't dead, sure, but I wouldn't exactly know when to trust the DM's version of "reality" anymore.
The TV afficionado in me says: As long as I wake up in bed next to Suzanne Pleschette, go for it.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Sort of a fantasy Defence of Duffer's Drift, then?
I could see it as a dream ... fight, die ... gain a level, rinse repeat. Might be interesting as a curse dream in an existing campaign where the characters are already mid-to-high level, but they start the curse dream at first level and can't escape until they beat the creature.
This might work with good friends who are young and have a huge amount of time on their hands. I could have lived with this in high school.
As an adult with a very limited time allotted for gaming, I would be supremely pissed off if a DM pulled this stunt. I would at the very least never be a player in a game where they were DMing, and I would further hold it out as a cautionary tale for future DMs... ("you'd never believe what this one bozo we had did." It would certainly be submitted to the many threads about the "worst DM ever".) At the worst, I might never play with that person again in any capacity.
Basically, this is like very long exposition, only longer. No matter what the players do, you have your own agenda and you are going to be railroading them.
Imagine how the players feel 1.5 hours into the session when they realize that NOTHING they did was going to have any impact. Basically, they were bystanders while you as the GM did all of the playing. They were not playing, because nothing they did was going to matter.
The social dynamic I expect is that the GM gets to play lots of roles, they get to be the center of attention, they are trusted to pick out interesting elements that will make for good gaming sessions. They might pick parts of published adventures or use them wholesale. They might pick up bits from movies they've seen. whatever... the GM has a lot of freedom.
The players get to decide how they will react to the situation. They guide the narrative through their choices. The players make the story through their actions or inaction.
In this case, you are taking away the players agency by putting them in a no-win situation. No matter what happens, it will have been a waste of time because the outcome was planned in advance.
VERY BAD IDEA.
Better idea: just say this: "Your characters have horrible nightmares, imagining their death at the hands of a particular BBEG". It accomplishes the exact same thing as your original plan, except that it only takes 10 seconds and doesn't waste half your players evening. I can forgive a lot of things from friends, but I will not tolerate their intentionally wasting my time.
As an adult with a very limited time allotted for gaming, I would be supremely pissed off if a DM pulled this stunt. I would at the very least never be a player in a game where they were DMing, and I would further hold it out as a cautionary tale for future DMs... ("you'd never believe what this one bozo we had did." It would certainly be submitted to the many threads about the "worst DM ever".) At the worst, I might never play with that person again in any capacity.
Basically, this is like very long exposition, only longer. No matter what the players do, you have your own agenda and you are going to be railroading them.
Imagine how the players feel 1.5 hours into the session when they realize that NOTHING they did was going to have any impact. Basically, they were bystanders while you as the GM did all of the playing. They were not playing, because nothing they did was going to matter.
The social dynamic I expect is that the GM gets to play lots of roles, they get to be the center of attention, they are trusted to pick out interesting elements that will make for good gaming sessions. They might pick parts of published adventures or use them wholesale. They might pick up bits from movies they've seen. whatever... the GM has a lot of freedom.
The players get to decide how they will react to the situation. They guide the narrative through their choices. The players make the story through their actions or inaction.
In this case, you are taking away the players agency by putting them in a no-win situation. No matter what happens, it will have been a waste of time because the outcome was planned in advance.
VERY BAD IDEA.
Better idea: just say this: "Your characters have horrible nightmares, imagining their death at the hands of a particular BBEG". It accomplishes the exact same thing as your original plan, except that it only takes 10 seconds and doesn't waste half your players evening. I can forgive a lot of things from friends, but I will not tolerate their intentionally wasting my time.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
From my point of view, that would be extremely dull. Put some description into it or don't bother. Any time I'm playing and doing something active, whether it's playing out a cut scene with a temporary character or a dream sequence, and I'm having fun with it it's not a waste of my time.
You are right Billd91. Add a little bit of exposition. The DM should obviously be using their own words to fit with their own campaign.
My point stands that if you are taking away players agency, at least be up-front about it. Get it over quickly so that they can get back into the game and start having a say over their characters destiny.
Pretending to act out playing only later to spring "its just a dream" is about the worst DMing I've ever heard of. Its perhaps not quite as bad as a DM arbitrarily having PCs tortured or violated without giving them any ability to have avoided or prevented it, but it is in the same ballpark.
My point stands that if you are taking away players agency, at least be up-front about it. Get it over quickly so that they can get back into the game and start having a say over their characters destiny.
Pretending to act out playing only later to spring "its just a dream" is about the worst DMing I've ever heard of. Its perhaps not quite as bad as a DM arbitrarily having PCs tortured or violated without giving them any ability to have avoided or prevented it, but it is in the same ballpark.
As others have said, we need to know why this information is being imparted. Is it a threat from the BBEG, a gift from a certain character's god, or something else? And why is it happening here and now instead of in other circumstances? Will this continue to happen in the future in other situations? Big can of worms here.
That being said, if you're determined to go through with it, you might consider using temporary pre-generated characters. Let them die and somehow the PCs see it. Maybe a strong memory remaining, a warning from a god, or a warning from the BBEG. If it's a memory of something that happened long ago you could use archaic language, armor, maybe the BBEG's apearance is younger, etc... to highlight what it is. I think using temp characters achieves the same thing as telling the players ahead of time that it's a dream, but you're not messing with their characters.
If you decide to go ahead with it, let us know how you ran it and how it went.
That being said, if you're determined to go through with it, you might consider using temporary pre-generated characters. Let them die and somehow the PCs see it. Maybe a strong memory remaining, a warning from a god, or a warning from the BBEG. If it's a memory of something that happened long ago you could use archaic language, armor, maybe the BBEG's apearance is younger, etc... to highlight what it is. I think using temp characters achieves the same thing as telling the players ahead of time that it's a dream, but you're not messing with their characters.
If you decide to go ahead with it, let us know how you ran it and how it went.
HalfOrc HalfBiscuit
Adventurer
As with several other posters I'm not a huge fan of the idea - I'm not sure what is gained by taking the time to play through the encounter rather than just describing the dream.
However, if you do wish to go through with it I would suggest:
1. Giving the players some sort of roll (such as when first injured; when HP reduced to half etc.) to realise that it's a dream and wake up.
And/or
2. When the first player dies (or wakes up voluntarily if you've gone with option 1) hand him a note saying "You wake up bathed in sweat, your heart pounding, and realise it was just a dream - as you come to full wakefulness you realise that you comrades are all still writhing in the grip of their own nightmares." When the second player dies/wakes he gets an identical note ... and so on.
However, if you do wish to go through with it I would suggest:
1. Giving the players some sort of roll (such as when first injured; when HP reduced to half etc.) to realise that it's a dream and wake up.
And/or
2. When the first player dies (or wakes up voluntarily if you've gone with option 1) hand him a note saying "You wake up bathed in sweat, your heart pounding, and realise it was just a dream - as you come to full wakefulness you realise that you comrades are all still writhing in the grip of their own nightmares." When the second player dies/wakes he gets an identical note ... and so on.
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