Falling from Great Heights

No, my point is that the characters in these movies have no thoughts at all. Why? Because they are fictional constructs.
I just find that sad. Honestly.

You can roleplay being afraid all you like, but, at the end of the day, they never balk at doing the suicidal.
As I pointed out, they surrender all the time.

But, honestly, yet again, you pointing out that you don't see the characters as anything more than fiction constructs who don't think anything just cements the vast gulf between the most fundamental of concepts we are seeking and finding in gaming.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Wait, what? I never said that. See my above reply.


You said:

In the same way, my character, in any edition, can drink a bottle of poison, the deadliest poison known in that world, and if I roll my saving throw, I survive. Now, since a 1 always fails a save in 3e, you'd always have a 5% chance of dying, but, if my fort bonus is higher than the save DC, I can drink that bottle several more times without the slightest effect.


amongst other similar quotes.

You can change your tune now if you would like. That is fine.
 




Savage Wombat- sorry, my bad. Gonna step back from this one and bow out before my presence draws more disruption. I've said my piece, so, people can pretty much take it or leave it.
 

I know that but there could be rules built into the system to handle this. Like how to handle mobs, how to make falling more realistic, a simple way to just scale city guardsmen or make bows more of a threat.
For me, 4E handles those all fine for the type of game I want to use D&D for. For other types of game, I will use a different system.

English longbows were devastating yet they are a sub optimal weapon in DnD at higher levels.
I assume this is a 3.x thing? A ranger with a longbow in 4E can be devastating at any level.

They should be able to make a game where the DM gets to decide just how realistic he wants his game to be.
Yes - as a GM I do exactly that. My answer feeds strongly into what system I will use for the game I am contemplating.

Telling us to just go play something else is losing customers for DnD something I thought they wanted to fix.
All I am doing is explaining what I do - what I have done since 1990 or so. I play D&D and other systems. When I plan a game, I first decide what "style" or "tenor" of game I want - what I want the players to be engaging with as they play - and then I choose a system to use that will support those aims. Picking a system and then either demanding that it be flexible to all my ends or spending endless effort warping it so that it approximately meets my needs seems needlessly obtuse, to me. There are hundreds of RPG systems out there - a resource I make use of as and how I need to.

The discussion one side is trying to have is "I'd like the game to be able to make low groups dangerous at all levels." Yes, it fits within the spirit of D&D: it happens at low and mid-low levels. However, characters grow out of that. We're agreed that it's the case. Now, one side is trying to say "I don't like that it happens, and would like to see an alternative."
Simple answer - cap levels. Not a full or ideal answer; the full answer is "change the system". This could be done by houseruling, rewriting the system or just picking a system that supports what you are trying to do from the start. Pick any option.

Trying to persuade a bunch of professional designers to write the system you want is also a possibility, but it seems somewhat extreme as a solution, to me.

No. What YOU just described REALLY is the essence of that slanderous term ROLLPLAY.
What you described is pure mechanics and predestination.
What you described is actively avoiding being inside JONES or BONDS head and having those thoughts but is instead inside the audience members head having those thoughts and metaknowledge that the characters can and should never ever have.
Roleplay is about being inside the role with the knowledge, experiences and fears of that guy. That is absolutely NOT what you have described.
This is just an attempt to define "roleplaying" as "immersive play" - to which I say hooey.

Follow on with "hit points and levels are not helpful to immersive play" to which I would say "no s#!t, Sherlock!"

But that brings up the problem of the barmaid levelling with you.
I always prefer it if barmaids level with me.

Just tell me the price of the beer straight - I can take it.
 

For me, 4E handles those all fine for the type of game I want to use D&D for. For other types of game, I will use a different system.

I assume this is a 3.x thing? A ranger with a longbow in 4E can be devastating at any level.

Yes - as a GM I do exactly that. My answer feeds strongly into what system I will use for the game I am contemplating.

All I am doing is explaining what I do - what I have done since 1990 or so. I play D&D and other systems. When I plan a game, I first decide what "style" or "tenor" of game I want - what I want the players to be engaging with as they play - and then I choose a system to use that will support those aims. Picking a system and then either demanding that it be flexible to all my ends or spending endless effort warping it so that it approximately meets my needs seems needlessly obtuse, to me. There are hundreds of RPG systems out there - a resource I make use of as and how I need to.


.

It is just to bad that the things I dislike about 4E outweigh what works.

Which is why hopefully they will take what is good about all editions and add them to the 5E.

I don't get the just play a different game attitude. DnD is a fantasy RPG it should if well written allow more than one play style. It can do this by having the game be scalable and having dials to turn up the grittiness and turn down the grittiness.

As I said before most of my players are not interested in learning another set of rules they are busy people and at this stage of their lives they just want to get together and play.

I am disabled and live on a fixed budget so it is hard for me to spend the money on different systems.

So we stick with DnD and try and make it work. But like I keep saying with a new edition it would be nice to see options that allow for a more wide variety of themes and games.
 

Trying to persuade a bunch of professional designers to write the system you want is also a possibility, but it seems somewhat extreme as a solution, to me.
This is currently what everyone is trying to do. And, when the stated goal of the designers is "we're going to make different modules that you can add to the game to tweak the game to where you want to get it," asking for a module that affects this sort of thing in the "gritty" module or whatever seems extremely reasonable, not extreme. But that's just me.

This is just an attempt to define "roleplaying" as "immersive play" - to which I say hooey.
I'd say that, too. I think "playing a role" is the heart of "roleplaying", which does not require immersion. But, extensive metagaming that leads to decisions outside of the role would be failing to roleplay, in my opinion.

Follow on with "hit points and levels are not helpful to immersive play" to which I would say "no s#!t, Sherlock!"
I'd disagree with this. I think it just depends. Levels can help define relative power level, and as long as the mechanics themselves aren't front and center (they're mostly behind the curtain), I'd say that it doesn't necessarily need to disrupt immersion at all.

And hit points, given their abstract nature, are actually very good for immersion in most combat situations; they just break down in certain scenarios when treated as morale or skill (being on fire, falling, etc.). Treating them as divine protection helps, if that doesn't break your immersion or sense of verisimilitude (which is subjective), because it has the same excuse magic has (it's magic!). As always, play what you like :)
 

This is just an attempt to define "roleplaying" as "immersive play" - to which I say hooey.
No no no. I make no claim that I am in any way defining or limiting "roleplay".

But I stand completely by my description of THAT specific area as being outside the umbrella.
 

Remove ads

Top