Falling with Wings

[ARandomGod]

Under the entry 'Minimum Forward Speed' stands that you have to succeed on a Reflex Save against DC 20 when you fail to maintain the minimum forward speed. Therefore I would require a Reflex Save DC 20 for all flyers with average or worse maneuverability.

Cheers
Vraister

Yea, but noone here has failed to maintain their minimum speed.
Run it through a checklist:

1) Did they make the full speed needed to not fall last round? Check (speed needed, 0, on the ground)

2) Are they making full speed needed next round (Wait till next round to check).

They haven't failed anything.
If you want to "experiment", get a bird (capable of flight), put it on a stick, drop the stick. You'll see that the birds indeed do not fall. Even though you surprised them.

 

[werk]

If you want to "experiment", get a bird (capable of flight), put it on a stick, drop the stick. You'll see that the birds indeed do not fall. Even though you surprised them.

So we should start testing out rules IRL?

While I don't disagree with you, I do reject your analogy.

So why can't the flyers just start flying when they bridge drops out? They didn't stall. When their init starts, can't they just take their move (fly x')?

If a warrior bullrushes someone off a cliff, does the bullrushed fall that round or on their init? If they fall on their init, do you resolve the fall before they can act?

I'm just asking, obviously my answer to the OP is in need of review.

 

[ARandomGod]

So we should start testing out rules IRL?

Sometimes it's amuzing. What else are you going to base this off of? Other than RAW... and using RAW specifically it states... no, wait, nothing. So there you have it, nothing happens!

While I don't disagree with you, I do reject your analogy.

So why can't the flyers just start flying when they bridge drops out? They didn't stall. When their init starts, can't they just take their move (fly x')?

I imagine so...

If a warrior bullrushes someone off a cliff, does the bullrushed fall that round or on their init? If they fall on their init, do you resolve the fall before they can act?

I've actually debated this before. Not on here, mind you. ...

See (and I'm sure you know this already), the problem is that this is a turn based system, yet clearly it's simulating events that are not turn based. So what happens to the person now 'hovering' over empty space? Does that person stay there until his/her turn? Can anyone react to this new event, or does the pushing them and having them fall happen instantaniously, in a slice of time wherein NOONE but the active person can, well, act? So if someone is right there and perhaps could concevably 'catch' the one who's potentially going to fall, they can't because it's not their turn until this action (including the long fall) is completed?

In a completely turn based system it could go one of two ways.

1) no movement occurs until the persons turn. Any movement not directly forced and paid for by an active person's movement (bull rush pays for two people's movements over a certain area. Throwing something can be thought of as paying for movement with a standard action) does not happen until that person's round. In which case the person (creature/object) does indeed 'hang in the air' until their next turn. This rule makes the most sense in a striktly turn based system IMO.

2) All turns are slices of infinite time (inspite of their theoretically being actions that happen simultaniously in six second slices), in which space only one person can actively do anything. And so the person will fall forever down a bottomless pit (or until he/it hits the bottom), after falling forever the next person's turn begins.

 

[ThirdWizard]

There is a precedent for hanging in the air while it isn't your turn: jumping. Granted, jumping uses a character's movement speed and falling does not, but it's at least something. What if they have no wings? Do the characters fall immediately, thus negating any help or actions they might take to prevent damage outside of their turn (outside of casting featherfall on oneself). It's something individual groups are going to decide for themselves.

 

[Teemu]

Odd that there is no mention of take-off or landing at all...

The Dragonlance Campaign Setting has rules for aerial combat and those include rules for taking off and landing (a move action).

 

[werk]

The Dragonlance Campaign Setting has rules for aerial combat and those include rules for taking off and landing (a move action).

And what does it say in regard to the posed situation?

 

[jgsugden]

Thanks for the input folks.

The stalling rules seem to be right on point. They cover the circumstances where a winged creature that requires forward movement to stay aloft does not have enouh forward movement. Only slight modifications need to be made to account for it not being the turn of the creature.

As the bridge, by chance, is exasctly 150' up in the air per my description of the room (given to players, but not in this thread until now), the winged enemies will have to make a DC20 Reflex save to 'catch themself' and avoid falling damage.

s a side note, if there were a shorter distance involved, I might use different rules, but these rules work fine for the situation.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

but these rules work fine for the situation.

And that's a good thing.