Fantasy Concepts: An OGL Fantasy Saga Project

[Matrix Sorcica]

Okay, you've won me over. MAB, it is.

With that, I can't think of any reservations against moving Defense progression to half character level. Can anyone else?

Perhaps a summary would be in place? I sort of lost track in this discussion

 

[maggot]

You and me both, brother, I've been saying this for 7 years. But I think the amount of time and energy we would have to put into this is beyond the scope of this particular product. I think a follow up product could function both for this system and as a modular patch for d20 as a whole.

Revamping the entire Vancian spellcasting system is a task of similar scope. If you approach magic accounting (items and bonuses) in a modular way, you might want to do the same for spellcasting.

 

[The_Gneech]

With that, I can't think of any reservations against moving Defense progression to half character level. Can anyone else?

It sounds to me like you're moving farther and farther away from a "port of SWSE" with every post, and just making another fantasy d20 variant. *shrugs*

-The Gneech

 

[Flynn]

It sounds to me like you're moving farther and farther away from a "port of SWSE" with every post, and just making another fantasy d20 variant. *shrugs*

-The Gneech

A direct port would be broken, by the numbers, due to the presence of magic items and spells. A port which maintains the spirit of SWSE, and deals effectively with magic items and spells, is about the best we can do, and still be playable. So, it begs the question: What would you like - a direct port that breaks due to bad numbers or a port that maintains the spirit and works with the numbers?

I want something that works, not something that breaks, even if it means that we stray a little from our original goal of a Saga emulation, and "something with the Saga spirit that works" was what I thought you guys would want, too. Am I wrong here?

(As an aside, some things just have to be different to avoid legal issues. I have stated that there will be a number of optional rules that will allow you to recapture the Saga game mechanic in your home game with some of the differences I've mentioned. However, to protect ourselves legally, some things do have to be different.)

BTW, just to be clear, I'm not trying to sound snarky, and I do apogize if I am coming across that way. I'm just making sure that my position is estabished, so that you know my expectations. I honestly want to know your expectations, so we can see what we can do to meet them and still maintain our own expectations, if that's possible. If it isn't, we have to measure the validity of our expectations against yours, and see if we can find a compromise that more easily addresses your needs.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

A direct port would be broken, by the numbers, due to the presence of magic items and spells. A port which maintains the spirit of SWSE, and deals effectively with magic items and spells, is about the best we can do, and still be playable. So, it begs the question: What would you like - a direct port that breaks due to bad numbers or a port that maintains the spirit and works with the numbers?

I want something that works, not something that breaks, even if it means that we stray a little from our original goal of a Saga emulation, and "something with the Saga spirit that works" was what I thought you guys would want, too. Am I wrong here?

(As an aside, some things just have to be different to avoid legal issues. I have stated that there will be a number of optional rules that will allow you to recapture the Saga game mechanic in your home game with some of the differences I've mentioned. However, to protect ourselves legally, some things do have to be different.)

BTW, just to be clear, I'm not trying to sound snarky, and I do apogize if I am coming across that way. I'm just making sure that my position is estabished, so that you know my expectations. I honestly want to know your expectations, so we can see what we can do to meet them and still maintain our own expectations, if that's possible. If it isn't, we have to measure the validity of our expectations against yours, and see if we can find a compromise that more easily addresses your needs.

With Regards,
Flynn

You are considering d&d style magic itens? a Saga D&D is a good way to end this magic item dependency of D&D, particulary dependency to the big six itens (numeric bonus only itens, stat boosters, resistence cloak, ammulet of natural armor, ring of protection, bonus only magic weapon and armor...)

 

[The_Gneech]

Hey, any way you want to do it is fine by me.

My comment is just that I was under the impression you were trying to do as close an adaptation as possible, but that instead what's ending up on the table is a completely different beast. You asked for feedback, that was it. It's not a criticism, just an observation. If that's what's necessary, then by all means do it that way.

-The Gneech

 

[Baduin]

You could simply get rid of the Big Six items and improve the characters accordingly (perhaps a bit Iron Heroes style).

If DM gives treasure D&D way, gaining a level should cost as much as buying relevant items.

 

[Warbringer]

A direct port would be broken, by the numbers, due to the presence of magic items and spells.
Flynn

I understand your point, but 1/2 character level and MAB have little to do with SAGA and even less to do with 3.xx core. I personally just don't like the MAB, but then I'm not overly impressed with BAB

It seems the two issues prompting this are armor and spellcasting.

Wanting to stack armor with reflex is a natural reaction to AC as is, and you're right they don't port well. However, I'd change the way armor works, not the way the system works. Make armor reduce your reflex save by its Armor penality, add its AC bonus instead and provide DR equal 1/2 AC bonus.


Spellcasting; Use caster level, this is scaling with saves by definition. Against good saves (ala CL+2) the caster will lag a little, but there are a few ways to up the caster level.

 

[EditorBFG]

Clarification of Goals

Okay, I know that, as we move closer to Gen Con, posts seem to be slowing down a little-- I'm sure they will pick up after-- so I think now is a good time to make sure everyone is one the same page here. Or at least, to continue the metaphor, to ensure that you know what page I'm on, in case you feel I'm reading the wrong part of the book. So, here is a statement of goals and rules I have for this project:

1) My goal is to create a streamlined version of OGL Fantasy, conceptually inspired by Star Wars Saga Edition's emphases on simplicity and character capability, which GMs can use to run fantasy games based on existing or self-generated material and/or settings.

2) Under no circumstances will I use ANY trademarked or copyrighted material not made available via the Open Gaming License to create these rules-- though I note that ideas cannot be copyrighted (only the expression of ideas) and that basic mathematical algorithms are fair game.

3) GMs (even new GMs and/or GMs with poor math skills) using these rules will be able to run your average published WotC or 3rd party OGL fantasy module with only a small amount of conversion, making any necessary changes easily or on the fly via a simple list of conversion guidelines taking up no more than a single page.

Since I am one of the two co-writers (and I have a reasonable certainty that my co-writer feels the same way), if anyone feels these are not the right rules and goals, we should discuss any such differences before we go forward.

Please don't read this as confrontational at all, I just thought stating these things was important. The above does not imply than any opinion posted up until now has been somehow incorrect or inappropriate. As we move forward with this lengthy discussion, making what people want from this project more explicit can only help.

 

[drothgery]

Spellcasting; Use caster level, this is scaling with saves by definition. Against good saves (ala CL+2) the caster will lag a little, but there are a few ways to up the caster level.

The nice thing about an MAB rather than caster level is that it goes a long way to solving the multiclass caster problem.