Fantasy Concepts: An OGL Fantasy Saga Project

[Nine Hands]

I will be honest and say that if you finish developing it, I will buy it as promised. However, I am already now impatiently waiting for 4E. I won't start a new campaign before 4E, rather finishing the current one (should fit fine with July 08).

Since there probably will be some things in 4E that I would have done differently, it might be nice to have inspiration from Fantasy Concepts for house rules, though.

But honestly, I think it might be best to wait and see how 4E turns out, and if there's still room for Saga-like improvement, start Fantasy Concepts up once again.

I have to grudginly agree to this. I feel that a large portion of the market will wait until 4th Edition comes out instead of picking this product up.

Also what is the state of the d20 license in regards to 4th Edition, are they going to allow other companies to produce content for it or will companies have to sneak through the windows presented by the OGL or d20 licenses?

 

[Flynn]

I have to grudginly agree to this. I feel that a large portion of the market will wait until 4th Edition comes out instead of picking this product up.

Also what is the state of the d20 license in regards to 4th Edition, are they going to allow other companies to produce content for it or will companies have to sneak through the windows presented by the OGL or d20 licenses?

If the 4ESRD is released under the OGL, then other companies will be able to produce content for it, so long as they are compliant with the OGL as it stands now.

If the 4ESRD is released under a more restricted license, then other companies will only be able to produce content so long as they obtain the restricted license from WOTC. In addition, I imagine that someone will attempt to follow the OSRIC model and come up with an OGL version of the 4ESRD that will allow third party development without falling under the restricted license, based on what I've seen discussed over this last year.

The OGL cannot be revoked, so it is here for good. However, just because the current Revised SRD is OGL, WOTC is not required to release the 4ESRD under the OGL. (I think they will, though, but I don't want to assume that they will until someone actually says it.)

The D20 STL can be changed, revoked or modified as WOTC sees fit.

WOTC may also create another limited access license to govern 4ESRD and its third-party development. If they so choose, we will have to wait for the license before we know what can actually be done there.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions,
Flynn

 

[Mokona]

I feel that a large portion of the market will wait until 4th Edition comes out instead of picking this product up.

Wizards of the Coast experienced large slowdowns in D&D sales immediately prior to the release of v.3.5. Ghostwalk might be the all time worst selling 3rd edition product ever. During that same period leading up to a new Dungeons & Dragons edition the d20 products by White Wolf, Green Ronin, and Fantasy Flight were somewhat flat (instead of declining).

Personally, I find it hard to wait until May of 2008 for my good new rules to make it in to fantasy roleplaying games. I want Fantasy Saga now. The previews of 4th edition make it look very different from Saga where I still think this project will be better for my low magic games. If this project waits until 4th edition it will be less wise to base the rules on Saga and more appropriate to start from D&D 4th Edition. Basing things on 4th edition could trash up to 100% of the work we've accomplished so far.

I guess I'd use The_Gneech's freebie if we stopped here but then I'm not sure what would be my justification for buying this product and 4th edition around the same time. In general customers have a short term time horizon. It still too early for most people to hoard their money waiting for 4th edition. My money's burning a hole in my pocket (waiting for the Force Unleashed supplement).

 

[The_Gneech]

I guess I'd use The_Gneech's freebie if we stopped here but then I'm not sure what would be my justification for buying this product and 4th edition around the same time. In general customers have a short term time horizon. It still too early for most people to hoard their money waiting for 4th edition. My money's buring a hole in my pocket (waiting for the Force Unleashed supplement).

Keep in mind that my version is geared towards sword & sorcery specifically, whereas Fantasy Concepts (as I understand it) is designed to give you something closer to the archetypal D&D experience. I was kinda looking forward to the products being complementary, or at least having areas of useful overlap like HERO and GURPS. But mine was never intended to be a for-profit juncture either, so I can see how the 4E announcement would be pretty discouraging.

-The Gneech

 

[Mokona]

More inspiration...

For a preview of talent trees and what it might mean for race to matter more, check out Dawnforge by Fantasy Flight Games.

 

[Flynn]

Currently, we are looking at continuing to push through on this project. I understand the general sense of reluctance to invest in anything new that 4E brings to the market place, and I am glad to hear that a few people are still interested in this project.

Back To Work,
Flynn

 

[Mokona]

http://staging.icv2.com/articles/home/11168.html
August 23, 2007

ICv2 Top Five RPGs
Dungeons & Dragons
Star Wars [Saga Edition]
Warhammer Fantasy
World of Darkness
Scion

The Star Wars Roleplaying Game originally released in 2000 and Revised Core Rulebook released in 2002.

Looking at each Top 5 from ICv2.com for 2005, 2006, and 2007 I note that Star Wars has not been on the list recently. It mostly contains World of Darkness, Mutants & Masterminds/Green Ronin, Warhammer, and Exalted over and over again. Furthermore, during that time period only Mutants & Masterminds, Warhammer, and Star Wars Saga Edition have knocked World of Darkness out of the #2 spot.

I see this as good news for the success and popularity of the new Saga rules. It bumped World of Darkness out of the #2 spot its first week back on the list which neither M&M nor Warhammer accomplished.

 

[EditorBFG]

More inspiration...

Dawnforge is great. Most of the race talents won't work in our system, but some will, and it is an absolutely beautiful setting. Eberron is great too, but I'm glad I'm not the guy who had to decide which got published-- I would've probably flipped a coin.

But honestly, I think it might be best to wait and see how 4E turns out, and if there's still room for Saga-like improvement, start Fantasy Concepts up once again.

Personally, I don't like the gamble of waiting to see if 4E has "room for improvement". I also think that Fantasy Concepts might make a good transition product, for DMs to help players prepare over the next 10 months for changes likely to appear in 4E. James Wyatt has mentioned in interviews how frustrating participating in 3.5 games has been since working on 4E-- rogues useless against undead, paladins with 1/day schticks becoming mere warriors after round 1-- and if you read the descriptions and come back to your 3.5 game with a similar mindset, I think Fantasy Concepts will be very helpful.

Also, we've done a lot of work-- not just Flynn and I, but many of you guys-- and I want to see it in action. This needs to get played.

 

[Emryys]

...I want to see it in action. This needs to get played.

Agreed!

 

[graylion]

Saga System It Is...

Greeting Creative Spirits

I am new to this thread but I say to thee do not slow to the far off possiblity that 4th edition will be great, continue to be great now.

I have played D&D since an elf was my class and my hat is off to all of you here and what you have accomplished. i have just finished reading the last 12 pages to catch up and I am very impressed with the distance you have come in a short time. I have seen similiar conversion grind to a halt with the non-ending debates and lack of direction.

I have played many games D&D, 2e, 3e, 3.5. White Wolf, Lords of Creation, Rifts, paladium, GURPS, but I always return to D&D or White Wolf. When I left 2nd edition I went to White Wolf Trinity their sci-fi and psion game. I came back for 3e. I have recently jumped back to white wolf but am now returning for SW Saga and the possibilities that it holds and eventually 4th edition.

I will try to contibute with ideas or methods when I can. I hope to use this frame work for the Known World of Mystara which is rich with multiple humans (cultures/races) and many variations of races/sub-races.

Happy gaming and I firmly believe in what you are doing here.

Regards

Graylion (2d10 vs d20)