Fantasy Concepts: An OGL Fantasy Saga Project

[Matrix Sorcica]

I've played a lot of RuneQuest and various flavors of Tekumel. I can get by with just two classes, fighter and wizard.

But, I like there to be a variety of classes so that multiclassing is an option. When I was looking through the SWSE book, the first character I scketched out was a duros Noble/Jedi. I'd like a similar utility and flexibility in this system.

Thinking about it, if I was going to convert the SWSE classes directly it would be:

Jedi - Cleric
Soldier - Fighter
Scout - Ranger
Scoundrel - Rogue
Noble - Noble (new)

Add wizard as the sixth class and we're set! (and it will probably please the Modern fans).


Please do not call psionics that. I hate that word in fantasy! Use Mentalist or something. Not a sci-fi word. Please. (Sorry, I'll stop ranting)

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

just had a thought. Touch attacks will need some work - especially touch attack spells. In Saga, they are severely hampered.

 

[Flynn]

just had a thought. Touch attacks will need some work - especially touch attack spells. In Saga, they are severely hampered.

In the days before touch attacks existed, spells that required touching your target required an attack against the target's AC. Chances are, it'll go against a straight Reflex Defense. So yeah, they are severely hampered. Alternately, they may be resolved much like attacks against objects in Saga, with a Reflex Defense of 10 + Dex modifier and that's it.

The jury is still out on that one,
Flynn

 

[Cam Banks]

We introduced the noble standard class into D&D 3.5 with the Dragonlance Campaign Setting because the character archetype was so common in the Dragonlance setting, and I honestly wouldn't go back. That's part of why I would highly recommend keeping it SWSE-style.

I like the idea of mages being either divine or arcane or whatever else seems customizable. You could use the same class for all kinds of magic-user from supplements like Tome of Magic - binder talent trees, truenamer talent trees, etc. Peter LeCara's Final Fantasy Saga conversions hit the sweet spot for me, with FF's White Magic, Black Magic, Red Magic, Blue Magic, etc etc all using the same class.

So, yeah - I would keep the five classes from SWSE. Just change Jedi to mage (and make appropriate fixes) and possibly soldier to warrior, and you're set.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Kunimatyu]

just had a thought. Touch attacks will need some work - especially touch attack spells. In Saga, they are severely hampered.

Good -- they're ridiculously easy in D&D. Also remember that in Saga, the worst attack bonus is Medium, like a cleric or rogue's.

 

[Mokona]

Vs. D20 Heroic Classes

Add wizard as the sixth class and we're set! (and it will probably please the Modern fans).

I favor pleasing D20 Modern fans but let's please avoid mapping our character classes 1:1 to the six attributes.

A character class is dull when it is an expression of only one of Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. Each character already has a set of attribute scores, they don't need a second element (their class) that is also an expression of the attribute system.

For example, a fighter class should be broad enough to include hulk smash fighters, agile swashbuckler swordsmen, and tactically brilliant strategists.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

I favor pleasing D20 Modern fans but let's please avoid mapping our character classes 1:1 to the six attributes.

A character class is dull when it is an expression of only one of Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. Each character already has a set of attribute scores, they don't need a second element (their class) that is also an expression of the attribute system.

For example, a fighter class should be broad enough to include hulk smash fighters, agile swashbuckler swordsmen, and tactically brilliant strategists.

Agreed.

 

[drothgery]

Thinking about it, if I was going to convert the SWSE classes directly it would be:
[...]
Noble - Noble (new)

Though role-wise, it's Noble - Bard (party buffer, social skills expert).

So, yeah - I would keep the five classes from SWSE. Just change Jedi to mage (and make appropriate fixes) and possibly soldier to warrior, and you're set.

Aesthetically, Jedi's a lot closer to cleric than mage -- it's the warrior/caster combo role; the best 'pure caster' build in SW Saga is probably Force-sensitive Scoundrel (for the Fortune tree)/Force Adept/Force Disciple. And I think you'd want a pure caster class (whether you called it mage, wizard, socerer, witch, or priest) in a quasi-medieval fantasy game.

 

[EditorBFG]

Thinking about it, if I was going to convert the SWSE classes directly it would be:

Jedi - Cleric
Soldier - Fighter
Scout - Ranger
Scoundrel - Rogue
Noble - Noble (new)

I'm not sure a direct porting over of the Star Wars classes is a goal. It could work out that way, but at least on my end, I think we want to create the best fantasy game possible, not just to play Star Wars in D&D.

It seems to me that the Star Wars designers chose archetypes to suit the main Star Wars characters (Han=Scoundrel, Luke=Jedi, Leia=Noble, Chewie=Scout, with everyone having some Soldier levels), not for the specific variety they created. Which is a good choice for a game simulating a series of films, but not for a basic fantasy game. I think what we want to take from the classes is the simplicity with which they are expressed, not the specific archetypal roles.

Also, while I agree with Cam's post that "Mage" as a basic class that can perform all spellcasting styles (arcane, divine, etc.) dependent on player choices (ala True20) is interesting, I worry that it would contribute to a notion of the various magical methods as interchangeable. It is my opinion that separate classes for divine and arcane casters maintains their flavor.

I think the classes should be basic mechanical constructs (Fighter has better combat numbers, Expert is more skilled), but that talents should provide the real flavor. Hence the interest in keeping the classes generic. No two fighters should be alike.

 

[drothgery]

Also, while I agree with Cam's post that "Mage" as a basic class that can perform all spellcasting styles (arcane, divine, etc.) dependent on player choices (ala True20) is interesting, I worry that it would contribute to a notion of the various magical methods as interchangeable. It is my opinion that separate classes for divine and arcane casters maintains their flavor.

... and if you want to produce a vision of what a Saga-style D&D 4.0 could be (or should be), then I think keeping arcane and divine separate is important. If you're trying to model non-D&D/heavily-D&D influenced fantasy, then spellcasting warrior/priests fall by the wayside as a major archetype.

If you're going for the former, I think I'd go with something base classes of

Cleric (Champion, Priest, Healer, Ascetic trees)
Fighter (Knight, Martial Artist, Weapon Master, Beserker trees)
Noble (Influence, Inspiration, Lineage trees)
Rogue (Fortune, Misfortune, Thief, Dungeoneer trees)
Scout (Awareness, Naturalist, Hunter trees)
Wizard (Sage, Warmage, Beguiler, Necromancer trees)