Fantasy Concepts: An OGL Fantasy Saga Project

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Please weigh in soon, as I'm working on this stuff right now.

This advice from the Star Wars conversion document might be helpful:

Skills: If the species gains a skill bonus of some sort, replace it with one of the options outlined below; of these, the “reroll” option is by far the most common. Generally, a species shouldn’t have special rules for more than two skills.

Reroll: You may reroll a skill check for a given skill, but you must keep the second result. If the species’ bonus in the previous rules only applied to part of a skill (for example, Intimidation is now just a part of Persuasion), limit the reroll to a single use of that skill (for example, you can reroll only when using Persuasion to intimidate). This is best used for a species that is naturally good (or, rather, naturally unlikely to fail) with a given skill, whether trained or not.

Conditional Bonus Feat: You gain Skill Focus (skill) if you are trained in that skill. This is best for skills where the species is best-known for producing highly skilled experts or professionals in a given field (for example, Bothans make exceptionally good spies, but they do spend a lot of time training to achieve this). In addition, this may be used as a way to further enhance a species’ natural aptitude with a skill that already gets a reroll (for example, Cereans get a reroll and a conditional bonus feat for Initiative).

Take 10 Under Stress: You may take 10 at any time with the skill. This is usually reserved for Swim and Climb when the species has a swim or climb speed, respectively.

 

[EditorBFG]

I think Dalamar was referring to two different abilities. Exceptional Skill would be the re-roll ability, and Accustomed Skill would be the ability to take 10 even under duress (like the old Skill Mastery). I was just plugging one into the Elf as an example.

As for conditional feat, I could just use that too. I'm just really trying to keep each race simple-- so I would like to either do one of the following:

• All races have ability mods, one (unconditional) bonus feat, a bonus talent (with path), and a conditional feat, OR
• All races have ability mods, one (unconditional) bonus feat, a bonus talent (with path), and an exceptional (or accustomed) skill

Which would people prefer?

Also:

I guess I am not so much interested in a port of SAGA to D&D as I am interested in a wholesale gutting an pruning of D20.

Well, we're probably closer to a pruning than a gutting, and I don't think we can get down to only 30 pages of rules and still meet this product's expectation, but you are definitely going to get fewer of the things you mentioned. The trick is, to cut all that stuff but maintain the ability to create and play the character you want.

Thinking about it, I personally might be open to the idea of a smaller pdf, pruned down to the most basic rules, like the D&D Basic Game boxed set WotC sells. That would allow new players to learn the system quickly, but also have them play the same game as everyone else, just with fewer options for character creation.

 

[EditorBFG]

This advice from the Star Wars conversion document might be helpful:

I put up my last comments before you posted this; thank you, I had forgotten this was in there.

 

[tsadkiel]

As for conditional feat, I could just use that too. I'm just really trying to keep each race simple-- so I would like to either do one of the following:

• All races have ability mods, one (unconditional) bonus feat, a bonus talent (with path), and a conditional feat, OR
• All races have ability mods, one (unconditional) bonus feat, a bonus talent (with path), and an exceptional (or accustomed) skill

Which would people prefer?

I like the exceptional/accustomed skill option better; that way the elf's keen elven vision has a different feel in play from another character who happens to be skilled at Perception. (Just as a random example; insert whatever race/skill combo you want instead.)

 

[nobodez]

As for conditional feat, I could just use that too. I'm just really trying to keep each race simple-- so I would like to either do one of the following:

• All races have ability mods, one (unconditional) bonus feat, a bonus talent (with path), and a conditional feat, OR
• All races have ability mods, one (unconditional) bonus feat, a bonus talent (with path), and an exceptional (or accustomed) skill

Which would people prefer?

I like option 2 better, but I don't think you need to limit to one or the other, just explain the Exceptional, Accustomed, and Conditional skill abilities, and then you'll be fine.

Also:Well, we're probably closer to a pruning than a gutting, and I don't think we can get down to only 30 pages of rules and still meet this product's expectation, but you are definitely going to get fewer of the things you mentioned. The trick is, to cut all that stuff but maintain the ability to create and play the character you want.

I think, if you can, make a two tiered system (even if it's still the same product, or two if need be).

 

[Dalamar]

Please weigh in soon, as I'm working on this stuff right now.I was hoping that a Planetouched could have all his or her accustomed 3.5 abilities at level 2, simulating the existing L.A., which is why their first talent is so "front-loaded."

Even if you separate the resistance from the free talent, a planetouched can actually have all their abilities by level 1 if they take that talent instead of a class talent as 1st level. If all the abilities are contained in the first, free talent, the planetouched gains all its abilities without the +1 LA it used to have. Though I do notice that you worsened their ability modifiers, but I'm not 100% sure that compensates.
Still, a planetouched need not have exactly all of the abilities they have in standard 3.5 at 2nd level, as they will have abilities in Fantasy Saga that they would lack in 3.5: the class abilities of 2nd level, or alternatively they can already be multiclass characters.

I should point out that talents are not meant to balance with each other. Since a racial talent is something only a character of that race can ever acquire, it does not need to scale with class talents. Anything I took from the Planetouched 1st talent, I would have to roll into some kind of bonus feat they would get at 1st level. However, in this system of races, feats represent cultural stuff, whereas the racial talents mostly represent genetics. Are there any Planetouched abilities people think would be cultural (a feat) instead of hereditary (the starting talent)?

Talents need to be roughly equal in power, just like races need to balance against each other. The only way one should have a stronger talent would be if the base race was weaker, and the talent was then bringing the race to balance with the other races, or if the talent required another talent that was generally weaker than other talents so that the two talents together were roughly worth the two talent picks used.
If a talent is stronger than other talents, people will choose it over other talents. If it is a racial talent, the only thing it does is limit it to that race; it does not become a weaker choice by being limited to a race that is balanced with other races.

I'll see if I'll write more later.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

or if the talent required another talent that was generally weaker than other talents so that the two talents together were roughly worth the two talent picks used.

I hate the 'some feats are weaker than others so that they can be used as Req for PrC's or as access to better feats' mentality of 3.X with the fire of a thousand suns! When I have the opportunity to pick an ability for my character, I want some thing cool now, not in 5 levels time (if I make it that far).

So please do not construct feats and talents this way in Fantasy Concepts.

P.S. Nothin' aimed at you personally, Dalamar.

 

[Flynn]

I hate the 'some feats are weaker than others so that they can be used as Req for PrC's or as access to better feats' mentality of 3.X with the fire of a thousand suns! When I have the opportunity to pick an ability for my character, I want some thing cool now, not in 5 levels time (if I make it that far).

So please do not construct feats and talents this way in Fantasy Concepts.

Please remember that the scope of the project does limit us in certain regards, and that we will not be making very many radical changes from the baseline in order to keep the product more useful to the greater number of gamers. Within those confines, we will do what we can.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[Dalamar]

Didn't even think it was aimed at me, so no worries.

And I do agree that feats and talents should not be intentionally developed so that some are weaker than others. Some can be more situational, but they should be roughly equal.

 

[Mokona]

• All races have ability mods, one (unconditional) bonus feat, a bonus talent (with path), and a conditional feat, OR
• All races have ability mods, one (unconditional) bonus feat, a bonus talent (with path), and an exceptional (or accustomed) skill

Here is my take on an example +1 level-adjusted species...

Tiefling
+2 Dex, -2 Cha
Bonus Feat (Deceptive) - you may reroll Deception checks but you must then use the new roll
Bonus Talent (Demonic Heritage I) - You gain Darkvision + one of the following: resist cold 5, resist electricity 5, or resist fire 5

Other New Stuff
Feat (Use Darkness) - cast darkness once per day
Talent (Demonic Heritage II) - Choose one of the following: resist cold 5, resist electricity 5, or resist fire 5 {these bonuses do not stack with DHI so choose a new energy type}
Talent (Demonic Heritage III) - You gain +2 Int + one of the following: resist cold 5, resist electricity 5, or resist fire 5 {these bonuses do not stack with DHI or DHII so choose a new energy type}

Below is the progression of a character showing that you could be a fully dedicated Tiefling at 3rd level.

Level
1 – 2 talents (one racial and one class/race) + 2 feats (one racial and any one)
2 – 2 talents (one racial and one class/race) + 3 feats (one racial, one class, and any one)
3 – 3 talents (one racial and two class/race) + 3 feats (one racial, one class, and any one)

My progression for the Tiefling might be a little too expensive but +2 Int is really good. I also made the Reroll ability into a feat (so anyone can have it I suppose) and the Darkness spell-like ability. I don't mind making Darkness a feat because it's effectively taking a little mini level of Mage that gets you one spell per day (at the cost of a feat).