Fantasy Concepts: An OGL Fantasy Saga Project

[Mokona]

I will start with noting I paused while reading this thread at post 164.

Welcome to the party. We've gotten pretty deep here but I think a fresh perspective can definitely help.

Maybe it can directly bolster your condition track giving you a +1 "column shift" (loved Marvel Super Heroes) when calculating condition.

QFT in that I'm also crazy about the Marvel Super Heroes boxed set. Any game that steals ideas from Marvel Super Heroes wins points in my book.

Going by the SAGA trend to remove class crossover, I feel if one wanted to play a D&D style cleric (martial priest)he would multiclass between divine caster and warrior.

Being a healing-robot isn't fun (for most people) and Wizards of the Coast recognizes this when they make Clerics into martial characters by default.

 

[Gundark]

what % of the project is done? Just out of curiousity

 

[drothgery]

=PART TWO=Will the priestly class have a medium BAB? If so, why? Going by the SAGA trend to remove class crossover, I feel if one wanted to play a D&D style cleric (martial priest)he would multiclass between divine caster and warrior.

I'd assume so. The 1/2 BAB progression really stinks (like the d4 hit die), and even if it might not be 'necessary' to get rid of it with 1/2 level defense progressions instead of full-level defense progressions, I'd argue that it's a good idea.

 

[GEEKAZOID]

Welcome to the party. We've gotten pretty deep here but I think a fresh perspective can definitely help.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

QFT in that I'm also crazy about the Marvel Super Heroes boxed set. Any game that steals ideas from Marvel Super Heroes wins points in my book.

Yes, a brilliant system. The original adjective ranking system. The d20Modern wealth system first appeared here. Could be used s a universal system easily.

Anyway, I don't know what consideration has been given to the default divine caster in this system. If you merge all spellcasters as the UA Generic Classes did, then the martial priest would have to be a multiclass.
Personally, I like the idea of a single balanced spellcaster which chooses divine or arcane. But with this I would also want no or VERY LITTLE crossover between divine and arcane spells.

 

[EditorBFG]

Will the priestly class have a medium BAB? If so, why? Going by the SAGA trend to remove class crossover, I feel if one wanted to play a D&D style cleric (martial priest)he would multiclass between divine caster and warrior.

Actually, I think we should follow Saga by having "medium" BAB be the minimum and not having a the lower BAB a D&D Wizard/Sorcerer suffers through at all. Part of the point of Saga is making characters more capable across the board, at low levels as well as high. I don't think the Priest should be more martial than the Expert or the Mage, but I also don't think any of the three should be as weak as the D&D Wizard.

Can we kill it, please? That and d4 hit die just have no business being associated with a PC class...

As you can see above, I am in absolute agreement with you-- on both counts. d4 Hit Die is is counter to the spirit of Saga, just as the Wizard BAB is.

what % of the project is done? Just out of curiousity

Done done? 10, maybe 20%. This has turned out to be much more complex than I think anyone predicted.

I know this has been said before, but I would be perfectly happy to publish the main product with spells as they are (only changing how they are cast) and magic items unchanged, then do a magic sourcebook that updates both to a new and more streamlined system, for those who do not mind having to do the extra work of converting these two things. Like True20, which published a version of the Psychic Handbook's rules for magic in the main book, then released a superior (IMHO) system with True Sorcery.

Do it!

Clearly Sorcica is in favor, but is everyone cool with leaving magic items and spells as is for now, and then revamping them in a second book, as described above? Because I think that is a project in and of itself.

 

[Mokona]

This has turned out to be much more complex than I think anyone predicted.

Clearly Sorcica is in favor, but is everyone cool with leaving magic items and spells as is for now, and then revamping them in a second book, as described above? Because I think that is a project in and of itself.

I concur with Sorcica. Leaving spells as is for now helps the goals of 1) copy Saga and D&D with as few changes as possible, 2) finish the project quickly, and 3) keep close compatibility with existing published material without violating #1 or #2.

Make a separate book that has a good solution to magic that is simple and isn't Vancian.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

So I've been mulling over magic a bit. I think I have a useful mechanic, but let me know what you think. For starters, let's say you stick with the current spell slots per day system in wizard, cleric and sorceror models, since it's easier to port things that way. So then I made up a feat, Channel Spell, which basically allows you to cast a couple of extra spells each day with a little risk. Instead of using up a prepared spell, or a spell slot, you can attempt to just cast a spell out of nowhere. It has to be a spell you either had prepared that day or know how to cast in the case of spontaneous casters. Make a spellcraft check DC 15 (?) + spell level, success means you cast the spell. Whether you fail or succeed, you are knocked one step down the condition track from exhaustion. If you try to use this feat again on the same day, the DC increases by 5 each time. This way you're going to get 1-2 more useful slots, that scale with your level, skill focus will give you another and further feats/talents could be added to the system to say, avoid the condition knock if you succeed, etc.

I'd give this feat to Wizards for free, since I think they should have the crappiest BAB known to man.

On another note, I think the Saga multiclassing rule should be modified slightly so you get one starting feat rather than nothing.

 

[EditorBFG]

So I've been mulling over magic a bit. I think I have a useful mechanic, but let me know what you think. For starters, let's say you stick with the current spell slots per day system in wizard, cleric and sorceror models, since it's easier to port things that way. So then I made up a feat, Channel Spell, which basically allows you to cast a couple of extra spells each day with a little risk. Instead of using up a prepared spell, or a spell slot, you can attempt to just cast a spell out of nowhere. It has to be a spell you either had prepared that day or know how to cast in the case of spontaneous casters. Make a spellcraft check DC 15 (?) + spell level, success means you cast the spell. Whether you fail or succeed, you are knocked one step down the condition track from exhaustion. If you try to use this feat again on the same day, the DC increases by 5 each time. This way you're going to get 1-2 more useful slots, that scale with your level, skill focus will give you another and further feats/talents could be added to the system to say, avoid the condition knock if you succeed, etc.

This is essentially what Flynn and I are planning. Cast too many spells, and there starts to be a fair chance you may roll poorly and take a step down the condition track from exhaustion. We're just doing it without spell slots. I hate the idea of cluttering up Saga's streamlined class tables with a big graph of spell slots, and see no reason to keep them when they are so easily replaced without hampering compatibility in any way.

On another note, I think the Saga multiclassing rule should be modified slightly so you get one starting feat rather than nothing.

I absolutely agree-- heck, I thought Saga worked this way already. If it doesn't, it should.

 

[Oldtimer]

On another note, I think the Saga multiclassing rule should be modified slightly so you get one starting feat rather than nothing.

I absolutely agree-- heck, I thought Saga worked this way already. If it doesn't, it should.

It does. From page 54, Starting Feats:

When you select a new class, you do not gain all of its starting feats. Select one feat from the list of starting feats.

/Mikael

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Ah I must have misread.

EditorBFG: The only difficulty I can see in making spellcasting entirely slot-less, so to speak, is making sure that you're able to cast 'about the right number' of spells per day without difficulty. What DC are you setting, and how much will it increase per spell cast? Does this mean no spell preparation at all (fair enough, but I'm checking)? Will all spells be available to the caster or are you going to have some limiting method (like 2e clerical spheres)?

Personally, I hope you keep some aspect of the spellbook-hoarding wizard. Your system will also mean only a small bonus to spellcraft rather than an extra spell slot, if I'm not mistaken? One more question - will the penalty accrue per spell level, or across all spells cast? Anything you want to reveal would be nice