Fantasy Sex Roleplaying Game Releases October 2003

[WanderingMonster]

Today's news has generated a ton of traffic and made EN World very slow. If this keeps up, this site is gonna go down like a Valar Prestige Class...

That was beautiful, man.

 

[rounser]

I think this can be likened to a Tragedy of the Commons, where you get some parasites and opportunists weakening the foundations laid by the hard work of others. I'm beginning to come around to Tracy Hickman's way of thinking in that respect - how dare you taint our game?

Not frothing at the mouth here, just a bemused recognition that he may have a point...

 

[Bulletproof]

First off, so what if he's leveraging his position at WotC? He wouldn't be the first person. Monte Cook ring a bell? Sean K. Reynolds anyone? That's what the d20 license is all about... You make a name for yourself, and you can produce your own products. AV has made a name for himself in the industry,

Only as a business manager, as far as I know. Has he actually done any game design? (Not on topic, I know, just curious)

and he SHOULD be able to use it, just like everyone else has. What else is going to set a product apart if not for the author's talent?

Monte and Sean never did anything that was a conflict of interest while employed at WOTC. I would say this qualifies as a conflict of interest, especially seeing WOTC's hurried response that they feel his product is "distasteful", but that's just my opinion. Even if what he did was legal, it doesn't mean I have to consider it to be ethical, or that I can't criticize him for it.

Secondly, while he may have known that there was going to be controversy, the fact that he belongs to an S/M club was going to come out...

This is possible, but I don't think so. Even if it was going to come out, he was not obliged to put it in a press release and use it as a selling point.

He's writing a book of Erotic Fantasy. Don't you think someone was going to ask him why? And why shouldn't he be honest about his life? Why shouldn't he be in control of how aspects of that life come out (i.e. in the press release)?

I have no problem with him including the information in the press release. I just don't think it's sane to expect everyone to accept it quietly and without criticism.

To be even more clear, I don't think he deserves personal attacks, but his business decisions are open game. He's blurred the line between his personal life and business. It would not have been dishonest to keep it quiet; no one asked him about his personal life, and he did not have to bring it up in a press release, even if he felt it would come up later. And if it came up later, he could say "none of your business". He's made it an issue and needs to deal with criticism of it.

Let me think here...
Probability that book will be big seller: Pretty low.
Probability that there will be personal and professional fallout: Pretty high.

The guy's risking his personal and professional reputation on something he believes in, and that a whole lot of people don't. That takes serious balls, whether you think it's a cheap marketing trick or not.

All this I agree with. Whether it is actually a cheap marketing trick or not...I actually doubt it. Given the information about his personal life, I think that he just really wants to produce this product, and maybe that's what he was trying to get across with that revelation. I merely think people have a right to be critical of him for doing so.

 

[thalmin]

Don't get me wrong, sex is good but I keep it out of my games, it is a side bar, but that does not mean I will not pick it up. I like fantasy, I like D&D, it will make an interesting collectable.

Before the netnook of carnal knowledge there was a book from Lion Rampant (ARS MAGICA), .The Races after Dark that you could only get at GENCON that was rather interesting take on sex.

Actually, The Races After Dark was included with some copies of "Fifth Cycle", an rpg from Shield Laminating.

 

[fusangite]

Bendris and Felon seem to have the idea that because fantasy literature contains sex, fantasy games should contain sex. While D&D is related to fantasy literature, it is game, not a literary form. While one can find sex in virtually every literary genre, instances of it in commerically available games are pretty few and far between. And there is a good reason for this.

We must remember than while books and movies are essentially individualized activities and experiences, games are social activities. The definition of appropriate social activities is very different from the definition of appropriate individual activities.

Now just as I'm sure there exist people who play BDSM Twister and Illuminati Orgy, I would suggest that these are not normal social activities and are as inappropriate for commercial publication as the book we are currently discussing.

 

[Psionicist]

http://psionicist.online.fr/stuff/av.gif

 

[Darkness]

I'm sure there exist people who play BDSM Twister and Illuminati Orgy

SUBSCIRBE

[/hong]

- Or strip poker Darkness

 

[rounser]

Goldfish Fanciers, eh?

 

[Bendris Noulg]

There's a huge difference between eroticism and fetishism. The latter is closer to De Sade than Dracula.

True by today's standards. However, in the Victorian Era, Dracula was not initially received well by some folks due to it's erotic implications. It's clear that the line of acceptibility has shifted to a degree. I dare say, in another century, who's to project where that line will be then?

Still, the end result probably won't be worse than a Piers Anthony novel, and many of those used to be marketed towards kids.

Heck, you ever seen the Spice Girls movie? There's enough S&M undertones throughout that film to fill a fetish shop, and the average viewers were 14 year old girls.

 

[Felon]

I think this can be likened to a Tragedy of the Commons, where you get some parasites and opportunists cashing in on the foundations laid by the hard work of others.

Eh? People who publish d20 products using the OGL are parasites and opportunists? Isn't that what it's there for? Kindly elaborate.

I'm beginning to come around to Tracy Hickman's way of thinking in that respect - how dare you taint our game?

She and Margaret Weis should be convicted for crimes against sword and sorcery. Newsflash: erotic fantasy was around before they picked up a pen. Those two played more than a small part in the gelding of the fantasy genre, turning badass barbarians into elven princesses. And they think there's onus upon everyone who comes after them to respect that? Well, I see a lot of other indignant folks in this thread seem to think so.

If I must choose between a genre that's "tainted" with mature content and one that's sterilized with tame, PG-rated pap, I'll take the former thank you very much.