Fantasy world maps and real world geology

[Doug McCrae]

But I agree with what Gygax says in his quote. D&D models a different, fantasy, make-believe world that has different rules than medieval and ancient military engagements.

!!!

Gary says that D&D fails as a simulation of the world of make-believe.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Agreed. Therefore all successful games have rules that describe a system of cause and effect that is defined in a playable way.

Playability is the key here. The falling rules in D&D are linear not because things fall at a different rate in D&D world but because 1d6 per 10 feet is a lot easier to calculate than the realistic alternative.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

Just pretend it isn't rectilinear. Think of it as an abstract representation. Don't describe it as all right angles & orthogonal corridors. Say "left", "right", "forward", & "back" instead of the cardinal directions.

Although, I haven't seen the map in question, but that's often how I treat maps in modules.

No no no, we mean it is really not mine-ish. Classic D&D speaking, I was put off that for the first DCC, flat lines to depict the corridor instead of the classic squiggly-line "this-is-a-cave/mine" mapping set. They've made up for it since.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Playability is the key here. The falling rules in D&D are linear not because things fall at a different rate in D&D world but because 1d6 per 10 feet is a lot easier to calculate than the realistic alternative.

Which only means that the physics of falling objects in a D&D world are not the same as the physics of a falling object in our world.

Consequently, if a scientist living in a D&D world examined the physics of falling objects in that world, his observations would correspond to the RAW. And if he then compared his observations to a game in which falling was determined "realistically" (from our POV) from his POV it would not only be harder to calculate, but also less "realistic" because the laws of his universe differ from the laws of ours.

RC

 

[Doug McCrae]

The question here is why are the D&D rules different from the rules of our world. Is it:

A) A deliberate decision by the designers to simulate a very strange world. One where housecats can kill people, peasants don't know what a horse is and objects fall at a different rate.

OR

B) They're an imperfect set of game rules, designed mostly for playability, which at some points fail to simulate the reality of the D&D universe.

I believe (B) is significantly more plausible.

 

[Raven Crowking]

The question here is why are the D&D rules different from the rules of our world. Is it:

A) A deliberate decision by the designers to simulate a very strange world. One where housecats can kill people, peasants don't know what a horse is and objects fall at a different rate.

So, you are arguing that physics can only exist as as a result of deliberate action?

OR

B) They're an imperfect set of game rules, designed mostly for playability, which at some points fail to simulate the reality of the D&D universe.

At which points do the rules fail to simulate the reality of the D&D universe? Perhaps if you provided some examples that would help.

I believe (B) is significantly more plausible.

I believe that (A) isn't a requirement for a physical system (you can have physics without an intelligent designer) and that (B) doesn't necessarily differ from physics (physics in the real world also fails to simulate reality in some cases, such as discrepencies between Relaticity and QM).


RC

 

[Lanefan]

Can someone please explain to me where and how the rules indicate that a D+D world would not or cannot have plate tectonics - a result of the natural movement of molten earth - because earth is an element??? (the one exception would be a hollow world with no molten core; plate tectonics would not exist here, but nor would most other physical things from our world - e.g. enough gravity to hold you down - without some serious explaining)

And, while you're at it, please also explain why weather (a result of the natural movement and mixing of air [another element]) *does* exist?

If you've got weather, internal consistency dictates you've got tectonics. Conversely, if you don't have tectonics, internal consistency dictates you don't have weather...which would make many things very difficult indeed.

Lane-"BSc Geography"-fan

 

[Prince of Happiness]

Can someone please explain to me where and how the rules indicate that a D+D world would not or cannot have plate tectonics - a result of the natural movement of molten earth - because earth is an element??? (the one exception would be a hollow world with no molten core; plate tectonics would not exist here, but nor would most other physical things from our world - e.g. enough gravity to hold you down - without some serious explaining)

And, while you're at it, please also explain why weather (a result of the natural movement and mixing of air [another element]) *does* exist?

If you've got weather, internal consistency dictates you've got tectonics. Conversely, if you don't have tectonics, internal consistency dictates you don't have weather...which would make many things very difficult indeed.

Lane-"BSc Geography"-fan

Because the God of Weather makes it happen. Because there's a really giant giant standing off of the edge of the world blowing really hard. Because the Great, Great, Great, Great, Really Great Druid sees to it that weather happens.

Explain to me why ultra-powerful entities grant powers to spellcasters? And why spellcasters can generate weather patterns and earthquakes, earthquakes which, may or may not be anywhere near a fault zone? Tell me where in the rule books where you have to have plate tectonics?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Can someone please explain to me where and how the rules indicate that a D+D world would not or cannot have plate tectonics - a result of the natural movement of molten earth - because earth is an element??? (the one exception would be a hollow world with no molten core; plate tectonics would not exist here, but nor would most other physical things from our world - e.g. enough gravity to hold you down - without some serious explaining)

There is no reason that a fantasy world cannot have plate tectonics.

And, while you're at it, please also explain why weather (a result of the natural movement and mixing of air [another element]) *does* exist?

If you've got weather, internal consistency dictates you've got tectonics. Conversely, if you don't have tectonics, internal consistency dictates you don't have weather...which would make many things very difficult indeed.

However, with or without tectonics, you could still have weather. The reason that you have weather might just be closer to that believed by earlier societies: the gods dictate that it is so.


RC

 

[Doug McCrae]

At which points do the rules fail to simulate the reality of the D&D universe? Perhaps if you provided some examples that would help.

housecats can kill people, peasants don't know what a horse is and objects fall at a different rate.

So, you are arguing that physics can only exist as as a result of deliberate action?

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this. Our disagreement is very straightforward imo, about what the game rules are supposed to be. Game or simulation of a strange reality?

The magic rules are a tricky area because they don't resemble anything in our world. In my view they too are imperfect. I see magic in the D&D universe as having complex, though to us the players, unknown, rules of which the game rules are an imperfect simulation.