Fantasy world maps and real world geology

[Raven Crowking]

And you don't think that would be reaching really, really far to try to defend your point?

No.

As a thought experiment, imagine that you were living in a universe in which the D&D rules were true, and in which there existed one individual from outside the system (the DM) whose choices determined how those rules would be applied.

Now imagine that you understood the scientific method, and attempted to use the philosophy of science to understand the universe you were living in.

The first important thing to learn would be what was quantifiable, and how to quantify it, in order to begin to explore the relationships between those quantifiable things. The existence of spells would help in this. The various healing spells cure different amounts of hit points, and the existence of a spell that cures 1 hp would make "hit points" exactly quantifiable. Likewise, levels would be quantifiable by observation, and one could determine that there was a relationship between levels and hit points.

Because levels would be quantifiable, it would be possible to learn that there exists a relationship between killing things and levels, and the existence of magic item creation and spells that affect this relationship would also make XP quantifiable. This would, no doubt, take longer than quantifying levels and hit points, but it could be done.

Ability scores are all quantifiable, as is the fact that any attack has a 5% chance to miss and at least a 5% chance to hit.

It would take far, far longer (human generations, in all likelihood) for D&D scientists to discover that certain individuals were able to act in ways that violate the general rules, or that the general rules acted in different ways around them. Considering the number of NPCs vs. PCs in a given world, there would simply not be enough data to draw such conclusions easily, but it would be possible.

Some might argue that these "special people" could not exist because a large enough breeding population was not possible. Others might claim that these "special people" could not exist because there is no possible mechanic for them being able to affect the general laws of physics in the way they would be described as doing. Still others would demand proof in the form of repeatable clinical trials, which is something few PCs would agree to do (instead of fighting monsters). In the D&D world, PCology might be a psuedoscience!

Fusangite said that the RAW provides the physics of the universe. But, the RAW contradicts itself frequently when dealing with PC's and with everyone else. Either the RAW XP rules are universal or the Demographics are, because both cannot be.

Why isn't it possible that neither is?

 

[prosfilaes]

Indeed, because they are quantifiable, the D&D scientist could refer to XP, levels, hit points, alignment, and classes in scientific terms.

So in a D&D world, knife fights never cause someone to lose a finger or an arm or an eye? Nobody returns from war with an old war injury unless they ran into a cleric or mage, because non-spellcasters only do hit-point damage and that'll heal pretty quickly? How did Galileo, in the Masque of the Red Death world, find out that objects fall at the same rate and then convince everyone of this fact if in fact they don't? Why doesn't the fact there's a specific, and short, list of skills never seem to have any effect on anyone?

What about other games? How do the folks in the Traveller universe undergo frequently changes in the fundamental nature of their universe and not notice? How can you have all the brilliant minds at universities fumbling around with the same quantum physics in a D20 Modern game or GURPS game set in the modern world, and never seem to figure out any of the broad rules of the universe? In any modern setting, the millions spent on education should quickly figure out that knowledge comes in quanta, and the XP/skill system behind it. Statisticians wouldn't use bell-curves and real numbers for much of their figures; since the early days of the science, it would have been obvious that a lot of properties are discrete.

Basically, there is no rules ever published that would remotely make sense for a modern game, since scientists would be working based off the game rules instead of real-world physics, which would logically skew everything in the world.

 

[prosfilaes]

As a thought experiment, imagine that you were living in a universe in which the D&D rules were true, and in which there existed one individual from outside the system (the DM) whose choices determined how those rules would be applied.

Now imagine that you understood the scientific method, and attempted to use the philosophy of science to understand the universe you were living in.

There's at least one published D&D universe where this is true (Masque of the Red Death) and many D20 Modern universes. Why haven't they figured it out?

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Because levels would be quantifiable, it would be possible to learn that there exists a relationship between killing things and levels, and the existence of magic item creation and spells that affect this relationship would also make XP quantifiable.

Is this necessarily true? Or do NPCs have whatever XP and levels the DM wants them to have, regardless of how many things they've killed in the past? What if "XP comes from killing things" ONLY applies in a rigorously measured manner for PCs, and it is erratic and unpredictable for NPCs?

What if other aspects of game reality are similarly different for NPCs? They can linger with wounds too severe to heal, just long enough to speak a few dying words. They can suffer, as others have said, maiming injuries. They can actually have their acuity of vision and hearing DECREASE as they grow old, not increase as happens to PCs. They can travel overland at rates that depend on their health and fitness. They can have magical mishaps far more catastrophic and unpredictable than happen to PCs.

What if the regular, predictable, and quantifiable world is ONLY one that the PCs see, due to the whims of the gods? They can try to convince the people around them that things like levels and HP exist, and everybody else thinks they're insane?

 

[prosfilaes]

My big fuss about geography was Eberron. I look at the world map, and it looks nothing like any world map I've seen; no isthmuses, no peninsulas, just five blobs surrounded by random islands. It just doesn't work for me.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Is this necessarily true? Or do NPCs have whatever XP and levels the DM wants them to have, regardless of how many things they've killed in the past? What if "XP comes from killing things" ONLY applies in a rigorously measured manner for PCs, and it is erratic and unpredictable for NPCs?

What if other aspects of game reality are similarly different for NPCs? They can linger with wounds too severe to heal, just long enough to speak a few dying words. They can suffer, as others have said, maiming injuries. They can actually have their acuity of vision and hearing DECREASE as they grow old, not increase as happens to PCs. They can travel overland at rates that depend on their health and fitness. They can have magical mishaps far more catastrophic and unpredictable than happen to PCs.

What if the regular, predictable, and quantifiable world is ONLY one that the PCs see, due to the whims of the gods? They can try to convince the people around them that things like levels and HP exist, and everybody else thinks they're insane?

Then that is the physics of that world.

 

[Raven Crowking]

There's at least one published D&D universe where this is true (Masque of the Red Death) and many D20 Modern universes. Why haven't they figured it out?

A force in the physics of their universe (often called the DM or GM) prevents them from doing so.

 

[hong]

A force in the physics of their universe (often called the DM or GM) prevents them from doing so.

This is getting needlessly messianic.

 

[Hussar]

What this world needs is narrativium.

 

[Raven Crowking]

What this world needs is narrativium.

Look, physics can be the way that the world works, regardless of how we define it.

Or physics can be the predictive model that we use to explain the world.

I would say that the first meaning of "physics" within the context of a D&D world contains a lot of real world physics (2nd meaning) because we naturally use our model to explain how things work, and that means that the DM is going to (instinctively) use our real-world model as a fallback.

However, the rules are a predictive model that we use to explain (parts of) the world. Insofar as there are rules to cover something within the game rules, those rules are that world's physics in the second sense. Insofar as those rules are followed, they are that world's physics in the first sense.

Not all of that world's physics (excepting that Rule 0 literally makes it so), but certainly a substantive part of that world's physics.