Farewell to thee D&D

[Semah G Noj]

there was a moratorium against edition war threads for a while. Every time i see a thread like this, it seems like it'd be a good idea to try to get a moratorium on dramatic, preachy "i'm a lifelong player and 4e killed d&d for me and all real d&d players, so i'm leaving forever" threads.

I mean, for crying out loud... If you don't like the game, don't play it. 4e isn't the only game in town, and companies are moving to meet the demands of players who prefer older editions.

qft

 

[Darkwolf71]

I CAN honestly say how amazed, shocked, and surprised I am at how utterly disgusting this thread has become.

I too am amazed. I am not shocked however, nor am I suprised.

Having recently been on the recieving end of a violent flamage for saying something percieved as negative about 4e's play, I am not suprised at all. (Ironic because I still DM the game, I'm just not crazy about certain aspects.)

What did suprise me is the names of specific people who have flamed in this thread. Some of those suprised me very much. It's a sad thing to lose a bit of respect for certain people.

OP, I agree with nearly every point you made, though appearantly I don't feel as strongly as you do. I have yet to make a final decision about 4e. Which is telling in it's own way, I suppose...

Good luck with whatever system you decide to play in the future.
Wolf

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

In AD&D a dragon can breathe every round for 3 rounds straight.
In 3e, a dragon can breathe at minimum every 5 rounds.
In 4e, a dragon could theoretically breathe once every 72 millenia.

In theory, my body could spontaneously jump to the right by one yard via quantum mechanical teleportation, but that's not exactly very likely, either.

Meanwhile, I have no trouble with believing that a dragon has a nasty cold if he has problems using his breath weapon during a fight. It all depends on how you look at things.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

The atmosphere of EN World has taken a turn for the worse since the release of 4E.

It saddens me that threads like this one are far from isolated events.

Give it time. It will die down - it always does.

Anyone remember the 3.5 edition wars?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Personally when I did play I would choose the fighter because I didn't want to think much. I mostly DM, and when I played I wanted simplicity. One of my problems with 4E is that now all of the classes are the mage. They all have powers and power management, and that turns me off. I haven't played enough to get a total picture of the game, but that is one thing that really irritates me.

I can totally get that. I liked playing 3E Fighters for the same reason, and 3E Wizards for the opposite reason. (At higher levels though, Fighters did became a little more complex, once you'd account for buffs and debuffs... But that's nothin compared to managing a high level spell list)
But I somehow feel as if the complexity of 4E is in my "comfort zone" of complexity that I might be willing to enjoy a lot more than the more extreme spectrums of 3E. But of course, I have played 3E for 8 years, and 4E only a few months.

The OPs post, not so much.. not anymore. it is too much rehashing points(probably unintentionally) that I've heard way too often by now, and stuff I know how to deal with, even keeping my disbelief suspenders on.

And Minions are one of the best inventions additions to the game. Every encounter gets better with Minions. (But then, I've seen Minions dropped like flies, and seen a horde of Minions taking down a Paladin, Minions that survived several attacks from the Wizard, and Minions that were dropped just because a Warlock looked funny at them...) I really love them.
Wading through hordes never worked better.

Dragons still kill entire hordes en masse. Just remember that "en masse" means Minions with some few lucky regular or elite guys that survive just as well as the occasionally missed Minion standing after the first wave. How often do we really see hordes dying with no survivor?

When I am thinking of a combat encounter, I like to think of it like a battle depicted in a movie. Encounter powers, Daily powers, all these stuff make perfect in a game. Of course the signature killing blow of the hero is only used only rarely (maybe more then once per 5 minutes, but I can narrate or visualize my actual game mechanical kills however I like, and when I want to use the signature killing blow image, I'll do that!)
Of course the Wizard doesn't cast his most powerful spells all day!

But be aware: I am a liker. After leaving Dark Knight, I found the movie just great. I couldn't name a single thing that bothered me. The friend I was watching it with pointed out the flaws first, and then went on to the praise. (Though I think he didn't have the reaction after "Das Parfum" (The Perfume?", the movie from Tom Twyker based on a book from Patrick Süßkind, so maybe there is stuff that can even blow his mind away )

 

[Wonka]

Am I the only one here who does not feel that these alleged "angry and disgusting" posts are that? Maybe I'm hardened, and used to other forums where if people were being disagreeable, they got down right nasty, but reading over these responses I dont see anything worth getting upset about. As I said, maybe I'm just so used to less moderated forums, and that's a testament to the job the mods do here, but its my personal opinion that a lot of you are overreacting. Take that for what its worth ( which is pretty much nothing ). Also, expecting there to be nothing but support, with no objecting post is just down right silly. Last time I checked this was the internet

 

[Vocenoctum]

I find it more astonishing that someone would come onto a discussion forum and post yet another "I feel the need to tell you all that I'm parting ways with D&D because of 4e" thread with the disclaimer that he only wants yes-men responding to it.

That's not what he posted. He posted "Hi, I've decided I'd like to vent my frustrations" and said that he's not looking for someone to convince him to like the new edition. In no way did he say he only wanted people to just agree with him, just that his mind was already made up and it would be futile to debate.

The internet is a horrible place to post your opinion when you want no dissenting responses, and a discussion forum is the absolute worst place to do that.

Actually, I think it's the perfect place. No one on a forum reads what is actually written, and no opinion stated will ever sway someone else. So, if you don't want to discuss something, ENWorld is the perfect place for it.

I also find it astonishing that people think that saying "I've been playing D&D for X years" means something significant. The amount of time you've spent in a hobby does nothing to make your opinions any more or less valid than anyone else. It strikes me as pretentious, just like those music fans that claim they're so much cooler because they only listen to a band's poorly produced garage demos, y'know from before they sold out.

It should strike you as "the hobby has changed in a direction I don't like". Anything else and you're just reading into what the person has said. He's just giving background.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Give the game a try a few times before concluding it's not for you. You may be pleasantly surprised.

If I am not mistaking him with an other Celtavian (or someone with a very similar name) on this board, he did play the game. And I also remember his tone changing a lot for a while (and to be honest, he seemed to become a little aggressive in 'promoting' 4E for a while then), and now he is suddenly back.
*shrugs*
I am not sure what changed again, but well, maybe is nice to know that some people can actually change their opinions on the message boards.

 

[Psion]

I don't intend to play it. I didn't create this as an edition wars thread which is why I prefaced my comment with this is a subjective opinion. I wanted to commiserate with a few other folks who might feel as I do.

After you played a game as long as I have, it feels kind of strange to have that game become something you don't want to play. I'm sure some people felt that way when 3E came out as well.

I generally looked forward to new books. Now I have no books to look forward too. And feel alienated from the game I enjoyed for so many years. This is one of the places I know of with D&D players in large numbers. So I came here to commiserate.

I know how you feel. Your complaints aren't the same as mine (though you do make some good points), but I do know what it's like to look at the game and say "I know what it is I like about the D&D experience, and it ain't in there."

Keep the faith. Offer to run games. Keep rolling new ideas through your head.
Due to the brilliance of the OGL, 3e is a game that can live on in a way that no other edition has. But it needs players to keep it alive.

And if, perchance, we cross paths, give me a call and we'll hook up and play a game.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Am I the only one here who does not feel that these alleged "angry and disgusting" posts are that? Maybe I'm hardened, and used to other forums where if people were being disagreeable, they got down right nasty, but reading over these responses I dont see anything worth getting upset about. As I said, maybe I'm just so used to less moderated forums, and that's a testament to the job the mods do here, but its my personal opinion that a lot of you are overreacting. Take that for what its worth ( which is pretty much nothing ). Also, expecting there to be nothing but support, with no objecting post is just down right silly. Last time I checked this was the internet

Maybe EN Worlders just have gone soft and are not accustomed to having their opinion being criticized and dissected, or in these days, people prefer to see what they want to see.

Or

Actually, I think it's the perfect place. No one on a forum reads what is actually written, and no opinion stated will ever sway someone else. So, if you don't want to discuss something, ENWorld is the perfect place for it.

Vonectum might have a point here.