Farewell to thee D&D

[Umbran]

There's a whole passel of people who think that just because this person is posting a negative overall impression of 4e, that this automatically qualifies as an "edition war" thread. That is not the case.

And there is absolutely no excuse for the poor treatment many of you have given the OP, and the thread in general. EN World is supposed to be a place where people express their thoughts and opinions about games. Many of you have posted very contrary to that mission- several are about to get banned from this thread, and their posts removed.

The next person who is anything less than perfectly polite can expect a week-long vacation from the site. Edition wars require two sides, people - if you really don't like what a person says, you can keep it from being a war by not engaging.

 

[Obryn]

So let me get this straight.

Your players don't care about anything that doesn't affect them directly?

Then your players truly are of a different breed than mine. And I guess that really makes a difference in the discussion.

I think his point was that he doesn't need rules to determine what happens when NPCs are fighting NPCs. I'd assume his characters care about what goes on outside of their party just like yours do. But, for instance, if I need a dragon to mow down an army of Orcs and the PCs aren't taking any part in it... Well, I can just say it happens.

-O

 

[JRRNeiklot]

"Not as freely used" I will dispute with you.

3rd Editon: Every 1d4 rounds (effectively, there is a 1/3 chance each round you can use dragon breath).
4th Edition: A 5-6 roll recharges (effectively, there is a 1/3 chance each round you can use dragon breath).

In AD&D a dragon can breathe every round for 3 rounds straight.
In 3e, a dragon can breathe at minimum every 5 rounds.
In 4e, a dragon could theoretically breathe once every 72 millenia.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Celt, you're wasting your breath, on ENworld it has become quite the fashion to disparage all criticism of 4e, yet OD&D seems to be fair game and 3e is quickly becoming the same.

 

[D'karr]

I think his point was that he doesn't need rules to determine what happens when NPCs are fighting NPCs. I'd assume his characters care about what goes on outside of their party just like yours do. But, for instance, if I need a dragon to mow down an army of Orcs and the PCs aren't taking any part in it... Well, I can just say it happens.

-O

Exactly, and that does not require me to take any additional steps in the narrative.

 

[Halivar]

In 4e, a dragon could theoretically breathe once every 72 millenia.

A statistical improbability. Meanwhile, there is a 1-in-27 chance the dragon will breathe every round for three consecutive rounds. This happened in a game I ran last week.

EDIT: I don't have the math (mostly because I'm not motivated enough to do it), but I think a 4E dragon will, on average, use its breath weapon more often than a 3E dragon per combat for this reason alone: the dragons last longer. Unlike 3E, it is not possible to "one-shot" a dragon by any contortions of the rules I know of.

 

[Crothian]

Celt, you're wasting your breath, on ENworld it has become quite the fashion to disparage all criticism of 4e, yet OD&D seems to be fair game and 3e is quickly becoming the same.

That is so not true. Threads were people talked badly about 3ed got this insane and insulting posts. It is just those threads and the the threads that talk negatively about the older editions are a lot more rare. It also does matter in the way that it is presented.

Started a thread telling people not to argue with you is a sure fire way to get them to argue with you. A thread started has no control over who or in what way people will respond to his/her post and should not be trying to control that.

 

[Barastrondo]

In 4e, a dragon could theoretically breathe once every 72 millenia.

Well, technically a short rest also recharges any such encounter power, so said dragon would have to be in the same encounter for 72 millennia. Which really puts the idea of "locked in eternal combat" into an impressive state.

Celtavian, do you run games or just play? I've often found that players can be really receptive to a game they wouldn't ordinarily try if they trust the guy running it to show them a good time regardless of system.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

That is so not true. Threads were people talked badly about 3ed got this insane and insulting posts. It is just those threads and the the threads that talk negatively about the older editions are a lot more rare. It also does matter in the way that it is presented.

Started a thread telling people not to argue with you is a sure fire way to get them to argue with you. A thread started has no control over who or in what way people will respond to his/her post and should not be trying to control that.

The thing is, I don't think the OP ever meant to say "DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME, EVER, YOU FOOLS"

He was saying "You aren't going to convince me. Don't bother arguing, it will accomplish nothing. I've played the game. I've looked at all sides. I've made up my mind."

 

[Khairn]

Like I said, I'm not looking for argument. I'm looking for some people who might feel as I do.

Hey Celtavian! I understand where your comments are coming from, and even though I don't agree with all your examples, I do share your overall opinion in the latest edition.

I really wish that the overall response to your opinion wasn't as vitriolic as it has been, but that's the type of site EN World is fast becoming, despite the efforts of some of the mods.