Farscape (No Spoilers)

[Felon]

Yeah, loyal and following the chain of command. Which is why season three turned out like it did. And they sure followed the orders of the Vorlons right down the line too. Did you even watch the series?

They are loyal and follow a tight chain of command--Sheridan's chain. B5 is basically its own little police state when they break off from Earthgov.

In general, I'm just tired of soldier-boy sci-fi. Star Trek, B5, SG1, and now the ultimate expression of crypto-fascist SF, the new Battlestar--sometimes I have to wonder if this is ever going to get old for the rest of SF fans out there. Farscape came along and tried to inject a fresh, smart, fearless approach, and falls flat on its face for its defiance of conventions. Why? Because people don't like a show without a clear chain of command?

It could be the basis of another thread, but this show had such attention to detail--I mean, even a character that was slated to die later that episode had some character traits--why didn't it capture enough attention to survive?

 

[John Crichton]

I don't necessarily know that I applaud him. I'm glad he did, because that lets us talk about Farscape some more, but I don't think people should continue to watch stuff that doesn't do it for them. Don't get me wrong: I don't want Crothian to stop if he's enjoying it and just pointing out flaws. But watching stuff you don't like because other people think it's good is never going to make you happy. (This explains why I don't go to movies very often. I vote with my dollar, and I vote hard.)

Well, he did like say that he liked it, he just doesn't love it.

I think that the reason I loved Farscape was that it was the anti-Trek -- at least, anti-Modern Trek. I remember seeing the episode... blanking on the name, but it was early second season, when the guy comes onto the ship and causes all kinds of weird light-effects that make everyone crazy and homicidal except Zhaan, who gets, uh, 300+ happy personal moments? (If I recall correctly, it also marks an early apperance of Harvey, passed off as a hallucination because we don't know about the chip yet in the show.)

Anyway, in that episode, which Crothian has seen by now, so no spoiler worries, everyone has figured out that it's the alien's fault they're crazy, and John, the sanest of the group because of his poor eyesight ("Hey! I've got 20/20 eyesight, and they're blue!"), is chosen to go in and defeat the alien, who has laser-beams and some kind of heat wave.

As I recall correctly, he gets D'Argo's sword, Aryn's prowler-plating-shield, a cloaking field from some other source, a heat resistant goo that Zhaan regurgitates for John, and a goofy helmet. He dashes into the room humming "The Ride of the Valkyries" runs around hacking up the alien's devices, and finally runs the creepy bastard through.

I looked at the screen and said, "If this were one of today's Star Trek episodes, the alien device would be uncovered, the alien would be stunned by some kind of feedback, and he'd end up surrounded by a force field. And then the captain of the show would say, 'We're onto you. We're putting you back in your ship and leaving a warning beacon in this region of space so that nobody else falls for your schemes.' And the alien would stalk off, growling."

And that was when I fell in love with Farscape. The show doesn't pretend to have a civilized morality when it's set in an uncivilized world. It ain't Deadwood, but if someone tries to kill one of the crew, that someone is probably going to end up dead unless they're truly incompetent or have a really good explanation.

The episode is "Crackers Don't Matter" and no I don't know the names of all the eps from each season. I recall the name because it's my favorite ep of the show (ok, probably top 3 if I had time to think about it). I re-watched that ep so many times that the VHS tape wore down and made the rest of the eps unwatchable. Fantastic ep and a great example of the show's drama/humor.

John: "Smells like puke."
Zhaan: "I predigested it to increase its potency."
John: (Surprised and angry) "It's puke?!"

I remember watching Stargate:Atlantis, one of the first season episodes, the one where some group of humans has found a serum that they can inject into themselves that makes them poison for the Wraith. Or at least, they think so. And they spend 40 minutes of the hour talking about whether it's ethical to use their Wraith prisoner as a test subject, whether it's ethical to use a volunteer as a victim for the Wraith's attack, and whether this will really work and should we I don't know it's not very nice this isn't the polite way to do it... and I looked over at my wife and said "If this were Farscape, they'd have fed the volunteer to the alien about twenty minutes ago." And she nodded and sighed. I ended up watching the rest of the episode with captions on at x4 fast-forwarding -- slow enough to read captions and follow actions easily, fast enough to get through a dull episode faster.

I'm not saying that such a moral dilemna couldn't be interesting. I'm saying that in such a situation -- aliens that suck the life out of you for food, with your group cut off from the rest of your country and planet, desperately looking for friends and help against the life-sucking aliens... that kind of moral whinging did not feel realistic. Or, if it was realistic, it was realistic for people who aren't going to survive.

One other note should be that one of the cast would also be that one of the crew would probably be hallucinating or somesuch due to something produced by the Wraith to add insult to injury. Can't just cause a dillema in Farscape, someone has to be embarrassed as well.

 

[takyris]

John: "Smells like puke."
Zhaan: "I predigested it to increase its potency."
John: (Surprised and angry) "It's puke?!"

Man, I love that line. And the "everyone but Chrichton can read the writing on the urn" bit, particularly with Aryn putting a hand over her eye. Hi-frickin'-larious.

And Aryn's "We. Are all. Going. To die." (While everyone was good, and Browder had the best ham-up lines, I was always impressed with Claudia Black and... (sigh) the guy who played D'argo whose name I'm forgetting just now but will remember as soon as JC reminds me. They both did a great job with humorous lines, made all the more humorous because they didn't have the funny ones all the time. The amount of expression D'argo's actor was able to convey through that much makeup -- heck, on a non-funny note, the expression on his face as he looks at the wall with the little girl's name carved on it at the end of the "time travel back to the Sebacean Alamo" episode... he got his character's feelings across without gesturing, and without me being able to see anything but his eyes. Amazing.)

And on a not-funny note, Ben Browder had a good delivery of "How d'ya take it back?" at the end.

Really, just a ton of good lines in there. And yeah, "Crackers Don't Matter". Duh. I should have known that one. (Seriously. As soon as you said it, I slapped my forehead.)

 

[John Crichton]

Man, I love that line. And the "everyone but Chrichton can read the writing on the urn" bit, particularly with Aryn putting a hand over her eye. Hi-frickin'-larious.

Oh yeah. Her playing the straight role always increased the humor. The ep where they switched bodies was genius and really showed how different/alike they were.

And on a totally unrelated note: Taky, you are one of the most well-written/spoken members of this forum. The fact that you misspelled Crichton's name (despite it already being on the page) proves that it's just one of those names that everyone screws up at one time or another. I have this handle on many different boards and everyone always messes it up at one time or another or all the time and I always wonder why. Now I will just chalk it up to one of life's great mysteries and the fact that the English language is terribly flawed.

And Aryn's "We. Are all. Going. To die." (While everyone was good, and Browder had the best ham-up lines, I was always impressed with Claudia Black and... (sigh) the guy who played D'argo whose name I'm forgetting just now but will remember as soon as JC reminds me. They both did a great job with humorous lines, made all the more humorous because they didn't have the funny ones all the time. The amount of expression D'argo's actor was able to convey through that much makeup -- heck, on a non-funny note, the expression on his face as he looks at the wall with the little girl's name carved on it at the end of the "time travel back to the Sebacean Alamo" episode... he got his character's feelings across without gesturing, and without me being able to see anything but his eyes. Amazing.)

Anthony Simcoe is a NUT. His acting is great, too. I met him at a Farscape Con in NY a few years ago and how he played such a straight character for so long is a mystery as he doesn't have a serious bone in his body. There was a dinner after the con where they had dancing and a few other events. At one point, a heavy dance song comes on and he jumps to the middle of the dance floor and "summons" all the ladies in the room to join him. They quickly complied. Soon he is surrounded by hot women and grinding it like no ones' business while shooting off goofy faces to the rest of the room. I've never seen anything like it. His real voice is nothing like his D'argo voice. An impressive set of acting chops to say the least.

The moment where D'argo became an beloved character for me was the following at the very end of S1, a true Kirk/Spoke moment (which oddly enough John blatently eludes to):

John: "Hey. D'Argo... how come I'm not afraid?"
D'argo: "Fear accompanies the possibility of death. Calm shepherds its certainty."
John: "I love hangin' with you man."

And on a not-funny note, Ben Browder had a good delivery of "How d'ya take it back?" at the end.

Really, just a ton of good lines in there. And yeah, "Crackers Don't Matter". Duh. I should have known that one. (Seriously. As soon as you said it, I slapped my forehead.)

I can hear the slapping from here. It's ok - I can't remember the names of the other eps I really liked right now save for 1 or 2.

Farscape had so many great one-liners and the cool part was by the end they were spread around even though John got most of the really good ones by default. The funny was almost always balanced with something equally as dire. Those lines were delivered just as well in most cases. Farscape was one of the only shows that could move me to gut bursting laugher and then 5 minutes later move me to the point of near-tears. Some of the plots were flat-out gutwrenching. The worst was probably Season 2's finale and the ep in S3 where Aeryn says her "final" goodbye to John.

"Humans. Are. Superior!!"

 

[takyris]

Oh yeah. Her playing the straight role always increased the humor. The ep where they switched bodies was genius and really showed how different/alike they were.

"I'm a guy! They're! Right! There!"
(I believe my wife lost it with the unzipping moment.)

And on a totally unrelated note: a) Taky, you are one of the most well-written/spoken members of this forum. b) The fact that you misspelled Crichton's name (despite it already being on the page) proves that it's just one of those names that everyone screws up at one time or another.

a) Woohoo! Aside from my tendency to take offense at random lines and post five-screen rants on the subject, which really isn't pretty when I go back and look at it a few hours later.
b) Son of a... where did the frelling extra-H come from? Dangit! Yeah, I'm resigned to never getting Crichton's name spelled right every time. It is a word of chaos, its letters sliding under my fingers as I struggle to bind it with the order of written words. (Sorry -- planning a Lovecraftian one-shot later this month.)

Anthony Simcoe is a NUT...

That story right there might be a reason to go to a Con. I've only been to a few, and never had the time I wanted to have, but that sounds awesome.

The moment where D'argo became an beloved character for me...

Yeah, that's a good'un. I think for me it was Season Three. I loved the guy-bonding talks, like the one you just wrote, where it showed the distance they'd come from even the middle of the first season ("When the Blood Runs Clear", right? The D'Argo/Crichton-arguing while bounty hunters trap D'Argo episode?), but he just took off for me in Season Three with the ability to be badass and funny. Starting with "Don't make me tongue you!" and, for me, peaking with one I'm not sure Crothian's reached yet (Crothian: If the phrase "lie-detecting lobsters" doesn't ring a bell, don't highlight):

Spoiler

My wife and I must have watched the "D'Argo, tell him who his daddy is!" "I'm your daddy!" sequence ten times, laughing hysterically every time. In fact, that line made me and my wife laugh and cry at the same time when delivered at that critical point in the Peacekeeper Wars miniseries.

The worst was probably Season 2's finale and the ep in S3 where Aeryn says her "final" goodbye to John.

Yep. To both.

Ah, Farscape. Dang.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

One of my favourite episodes (actually: three parters) was/is "Look at the Princess".
It has next to everything: Sex, romance, political intrigue, humour, madness ...
(Highlight to see spoiler)

Spoiler

Humour like in (I don´t remember the exact words, but the meaning):
D' argo: "I have a good and a bad message for you".
Crichton: "The bad first"
D: "You will be petrified for 50 cycles and never see us again"
C: "And the good one?"
D: "Chiana and I have great sex".
...
*laughter turning into screaming as John becomes petrified..."

 

[Storm Raven]

They are loyal and follow a tight chain of command--Sheridan's chain. B5 is basically its own little police state when they break off from Earthgov.

Except, of course, for Garibaldi. And the various members of the crew who left/got ejected. And their decision to stay was based on a combination of personal loyalty and reaction to overstepping by the state and a desire to do the right thing rather than follow immoral orders. So pretty much no, they don't "follow a tight little chain of command".

And, to put the point further, you ignore every alien character on the show, all of whom clearly don't follow a "tight little chain of command". Heck, Delenn breaks up her own government because it won't do the right thing.

In general, I'm just tired of soldier-boy sci-fi. Star Trek, B5, SG1, and now the ultimate expression of crypto-fascist SF, the new Battlestar--sometimes I have to wonder if this is ever going to get old for the rest of SF fans out there.

Given your completely innacurate analysis of B5, I'm not sure you understand what you are talking about to begin with. Attributing "crypto-fascism" "soldier boy" sci-fi to a show in which characters explicitly refuse to follow orders in order to make the moral choice seems to me to be the ultimate expression of a loon.

Farscape came along and tried to inject a fresh, smart, fearless approach, and falls flat on its face for its defiance of conventions. Why? Because people don't like a show without a clear chain of command?

Farscape lasted for four seasons plus a miniseries. Granted, it should have lasted for five seasons, but four seasons is about three and a half more than most science fiction shows get. It is three+ seasons more than many "mainstream" shows get. By almost any standard is was a success and didn't "fall flat on its face".

It could be the basis of another thread, but this show had such attention to detail--I mean, even a character that was slated to die later that episode had some character traits--why didn't it capture enough attention to survive?

It didn't survive longer than it did primarily because the Sci-Fi channel misused it and marketed it badly, not because no one liked the themes of the show. Given the level of your ranting, I think you have some sort of political/personal issues unrelated to these shows in which you hate all organizations, no matter how benign (believing organizations to be "crypto-fascist"), and they fuel your ill-informed hyperbole on this topic.

By the way, you do realize that "crypto-fascist" is essentially, a meaningless term that is solely intended to insult people, don't you? And each time you throw it around, you are basically saying "I don't know what I'm talking about".

 

[ddvmor]

Easy there, chaps. It's just TV.

 

[KaosDevice]

One of my favourite episodes (actually: three parters) was/is "Look at the Princess".
It has next to everything: Sex, romance, political intrigue, humour, madness ...

That was a favorite of mine as well. I think mostly because I got to see the third part of it at Scapercon 1 in St. Louis surrounded by like minded fans (+ beer..yay!).

Good times...good times...

 

[ddvmor]

So many great episodes. So hard to choose. How about the Season 3 climax on board Scorpius' Command Carrier (into the Lion's Den? Into the Dog's Bed? ...something like that). Or the sheer b*lls of iron on Crichton towards the end of season 4 on the Skaaren space station?