Level Up (A5E) Fast learner heritage feature and armor proficiency.

Perhaps I am just lost in a very specific "fantasy" paradigm but this just breaks my verisimilitude.
If these things are possible, which they definitely appear to be, then why isn't every epic level spellcaster donned in full plate, with sword and shield? Being able to break/redefine the limits of time means that they have near infinite amounts of time to acquire every skill required to be "the everything".

Are the liches your players facing full armored? They should be.
Is your near ageless high elf wizard npc fully armored? They should be.
Why not? It's not written anywhere that they aren't, and it could simply be that through magic they can have the same if not better benefits without the drawbacks (Bracers of defense +8, permanent Shield spell maybe through an amulet, and why not a Black Blade of Disaster always ready).
Would an epic level spellcaster probably still want to avoid mundane melee combat? I'd bet so. But if forced, he'll probably have much better options than what a level 1 fighter has.
This is what I meant by "waving away" time and gold to acquire skills. Without stricter rules in place to define classes then classes become meaningless.
This is a good point. Identifying a character via classes becomes more and more pointless the more levels the character has, due to the almost infinite permutation possibilities given by multiclassing, archetipes, feats etc. It only makes sense if "The Character" is a straight up 20th level fighter (champion).
 

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Anonymous3

Explorer
I think the post is getting a little derailed here but...

Perhaps the issue I am struggling with is more about design choice: Should equipment be a class feature?
There some good strong arguments here that suggest that it shouldn't be.
I think answering "No" unravels the system as much as it does my brain but it's interesting to think about the classes built without these restrictions.
What would fighter/wizard features look like if armor and weapons weren't a requirement feature? At a glance, wizards won't change much if at all while fighters (A5e) would need something else to overcome a perceived "deficit".
 
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I think the post is getting a little derailed here but...

Perhaps the issue I am struggling with is more about design choice: Should equipment be a class feature?
There some good strong arguments here that suggest that it shouldn't be.
I think answering "No" unravels the system as much as it does my brain but it's interesting to think about the classes built without these restrictions.
What would fighter/wizard features look like if armor and weapons weren't a requirement? At a glance, wizards won't change much if at all while fighters (A5e) would need something else to overcome a perceived "deficit".
I think that it all comes down to the concept of classes and how they need to work especially at low levels

A class is a predefined combination of features envisaged to work together to give some kind of iconic, easily recognizable "character type". Makes going in the game easy as it's one single choice (with maybe a couple of options) and clearly visible consequences on the kind of play style, as opposed to a pure classless system where you need to choose maybe several skills/features etc. More beginner friendly if you want.

Now, for that class to work, there have to be some aspects that must be included. The typical fighter probably knows how to use most if not all weapons and armors, so those skills are given to the class as features. A wizard is not expected to do the same, but for spellcasting it's required it can use material components or foci, so that's given as part of the class package.

IMO there's no reason to prevent any character gaining those relatively mundane skills by investing time, money and effort in general, and I don't think it would be reasonable to prevent it or allowing it only as part of multiclassing. Not every soldier has to be a fighter, but they can probably use most martial weapons and armors.

Going back to your question: what would I give the fighters if those skills weren't part of the class identity? Well, I would give that feature because it's needed for the class to work at all, otherwise you end up with either a broken concept or a forced choice (I have to spend my free skill slots into weapons and armors). If that's not enough, maybe I'd give the class some features that improve significantly the general usage of weapons and armor, so that even if a wizard can wear plate and sword he wouldn't be able to use them as a fighter.

But again, If you think there's no reason why any character couldn't learn those same fighter tricks (I do) you're moving away from a class based system towards a more general skill/feats base system. I wholeheartedly prefer the latter, although IMO A5E does a great job at the former
 

Selganor

Adventurer
Tools might be a "necessary evil" for people who don't trust others to craft mundane based items that you want to turn into magical items.
 

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