D&D (2024) Fate of the feral tiefling?

[Ruin Explorer]

compare that to the Orc who are still being tagged as Aggressive savage brutes opposed to all thats good, even while the literal spawn of Asmodeus are being embraced as ‘delightful funloving goofs’

I mean, this Playtest shows an Orc that is obviously designed to change that approach, doesn't it? In fact, Orcs have been portrayed positively in TTRPGs and videogames since, like, about 2000, pretty reliably. Hell Shadowrun has a positive portrayal in 1989. WotC was been a stick-in-the-mud about it, and with 5E, actively tried to drag Orcs back to being analogous to racist stereotypes with Volo's. Then WotC realized they screwed up big, and are now trying to fix it. It's kind of late in the day, given Shadowrun understood this the "racist" take on Orcs was dumb 33 years ago (and that continued in the "Let's Fix D&D" RPG that was Earthdawn in 1993, which presented Orcs as just another race), and WotC's own Eberron showed it was dumb even in a kitchen-sink D&D setting 18 years ago. But I guess Mike Mearls (who took personal charge of Volo's) wanted to drag things back to an older place.

The invoke the infernal taint of the Nine Hells and then choose to entirely ignore it so that certain players get to play their angsty edgey hero without having to explicitly recognise the mythic origins.

That's just nonsense though, as your own "fun-loving goofs" comment indicates. 80% of Tieflings, like, since 2E, have been played as characters who not particularly "edgy", let alone "angsty" - and indeed, you seem to unaware of what @Kobold Avenger mentioned, and which has long been true, which is that they've been the unofficial "LGBTQ" race - i.e. people who are LGBTQ have often chosen to play them. So sneering at them as "edgy losers" shows you're kind of misunderstanding why people play them pretty profoundly.

I've never actually seen a Tiefling played as particularly non-ironically edgy, when I think about it, despite having seen them regularly since 2E. In fact edgelords in D&D don't seem to pick the theoretically edgy races except maybe Shadar-Kai in 3E. Most Tieflings, Drow, Duergar and the like I've seen have been "against-type" characters (and not Drizzt-like "edgy loners", either). The only consistent thing I've seen from edgelords in D&D, in fact, is picking races with strong combat capabilities (particularly STR bonuses when that was a thing). I've seen human Fighters who were gigantic edgelords - hell that might even be the most common race/class combo for edgelords playing D&D (obviously that's a very small percentage of people playing human fighters overall, to be clear).

 

[Aldarc]

I’m polynesian, thus also a minority, I certainly dont find comfort in having my marginal status analogized in the form of an infernal taint from the Nine Hells.

Okay I can acknowledge that you do not find comfort from it while also acknowledging that others do, which is why the Tiefling is a popular race among minority and marginalized groups, particularly in the queer community.

but yeah, much of my distaste for Tieflings comes from the fact that they are shoehorned in for the sake of edginess. The invoke the infernal taint of the Nine Hells and then choose to entirely ignore it so that certain players get to play their angsty edgey hero without having to explicitly recognise the mythic origins.

compare that to the Orc who are still being tagged as Aggressive savage brutes opposed to all thats good, even while the literal spawn of Asmodeus are being embraced as ‘delightful funloving goofs’

(1) Tieflings aren't spawns of Asmodeus. Even in 4e, which went all-in for making them all of Infernal origin, they were not spawns of Asmodeus. Their aristocratic ancestors made a fiendish pact with the Nine Hells, but they were not spawns of Asmodeus.

(2) Here is the current description for Orcs in One D&D:

Orcs trace their creation to Gruumsh, the One-Eyed God, an unstoppable warrior and powerful leader. Gruumsh armed his children with certain gifts to help them thrive on worlds beset by monsters. Even when they turn their devotion to other gods, orcs retain the gifts that the One-Eyed God bestowed upon them: might, endurance, determination, and the ability to see in the dark.

Orcs are, on average, tall and broad. They have gray skin, ears that are small and slightly pointed, and prominent lower canines that resemble small tusks. Young orcs are often told about their ancestors’ ancient conflicts with elves in forests, dwarves under mountains, and invaders from evil planes of existence. Inspired by those tales, young orcs often wonder when Gruumsh will call on them to match the heroic deeds of their ancestors, and if they will prove worthy of the One-Eyed God’s grace.

There is not any language here of "aggressive savage brutes opposed to all thats good."

 

[Tonguez]

(2) Here is the current description for Orcs in One D&D:

There is not any language here of "aggressive savage brutes opposed to all thats good."

yes I will acknowledge that the 1D&D version of Orc is a great improvement over previous iterations. The 5e Orc literally has the trait: Agression which is what my statement was based on, but I beleive that has been rebranded as Adrenaline Rush in the UA?

 

[Aldarc]

yes I will acknowledge that the 1D&D version of Orc is a great improvement over previous iterations. The 5e Orc literally has the trait: Agression which is what my statement was based on, but I beleive that has been rebranded as Adrenaline Rush in the UA?

Yes, and I think it's also a better name for its function.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

yes I will acknowledge that the 1D&D version of Orc is a great improvement over previous iterations. The 5e Orc literally has the trait: Agression which is what my statement was based on, but I beleive that has been rebranded as Adrenaline Rush in the UA?

That's right. The text also makes them sound heroic rather than threatening (let alone subhuman, as there were even quite recently). I'm reminded of when Dragonborn were added, vibe-wise.

 

[JEB]

The new rules take the trouble to make using 2024 style races explicitly compatible, soooo...SCAG will still work.

Although if/when an updated Forgotten Realms setting book is released (likely in 2024), SCAG will presumably go out of print and be delisted as "Legacy Content" on D&D Beyond. So unless the variant tieflings are updated there or in some other new book, they'll remain compatible, but as far as Wizards is concerned they don't exist anymore and won't be supported.

Personally, I'm not so sure we'll see them updated - I think the new tiefling lineages are meant to replace all previous variant tieflings (both the SCAG variants, and the ones from MTOF, which are already "Legacy Content").

 

[Charlaquin]

Feral tiefling gives vicious mockery, enthrall and hellfire too

Nope, that’s Devil’s Tongue. Like Winged, it replaces your Infernal Legacy and can be taken in addition to or independently from Feral Tiefling. Also like Winged, I see no reason you couldn’t take Devil’s Tongue with a 1D&D playtest Tiefling.

 

[Parmandur]

Although if/when an updated Forgotten Realms setting book is released (likely in 2024), SCAG will presumably go out of print and be delisted as "Legacy Content" on D&D Beyond. So unless the variant tieflings are updated there or in some other new book, they'll remain compatible, but as far as Wizards is concerned they don't exist anymore and won't be supported.

Personally, I'm not so sure we'll see them updated - I think the new tiefling lineages are meant to replace all previous variant tieflings (both the SCAG variants, and the ones from MTOF, which are already "Legacy Content").

Yeah, but WotC won't take my books away, and just as importantly the new rules have the ability to use the old options.

 

[JEB]

Out of curiosity, I tried directly applying the SCAG variant tiefling traits to the One D&D tiefling.

Appearance: No problem here.

Feral: Technically One D&D tieflings don't have a trait called "Ability Score Increase". But as long as you choose/create a One D&D background with +2 Dex and +1 Int, you get the same benefits.

Devil's Tongue: Replaces the 5E Infernal Legacy trait. A really strict DM could argue that the One D&D tiefling only has an Infernal subtype of the "Fiendish Legacy" trait, and say that they're technically not the same trait and you can't substitute. (And they wouldn't be 100% wrong that the traits are different, but I'll get to that later.) However, I think it's pretty damned reasonable to say that "Infernal Legacy" = "Fiendish Legacy, Infernal". The intent is plain (RAI) and to argue otherwise would be quibbling.

Of note, however, is that the One D&D Chthonic and Abyssal legacies are definitely not the same as the 5E Infernal Legacy. So a DM could argue that One D&D tieflings of those subtypes can't pick up Devil's Tongue. (And I think I'd agree - it is Devil's Tongue.)

Hellfire: Replaces the Hellish Rebuke spell within the 5E Infernal Legacy trait. Going by the above argument, this is fine (but again, only for Infernal tieflings - and again, thematically that makes perfect sense).

Winged: Replaces the 5E Infernal Legacy trait. Once again, under all but the strictest interpretation this should be fine for One D&D Infernal tieflings. But you'd have to argue against both RAW and RAI to apply this to Abyssal or Chthonic tieflings.


Also, as I hinted earlier, there is a key difference between 5E and One D&D tieflings related to Fiendish Legacy. 5E tieflings have fire resistance as a standalone trait, Hellish Resistance. But One D&D Infernal tieflings incorporate that into Fiendish Legacy (and the other two lineages have different resistances in its place). So RAW or RAI, One D&D Infernal tieflings lose their fire resistance if they choose the Devil's Tongue or Winged options.

Of course, you can also just use a 2014 tiefling with the SCAG rules in a One D&D game, and it should work fine. The only SCAG variant that misses out from this option is Hellfire, since you won't get the One D&D Infernal tiefling's extra Fire Bolt cantrip.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

There is not any language here of "aggressive savage brutes opposed to all thats good."

The challenge with knowing how orcs will be portrayed from here on out is how closely tied they are to Gruumsh, about whom we know little at the moment. He was a more balanced figure in 4E, I believe (I noped out of that edition early on), but otherwise, he's been a figure of evil and unchecked violence.

I don't know that we're likely to get the gods in a UA, but it's valuable context that we're missing in this case.