Favorite superhero RPGs?

[Tony Vargas]

This is more about the genre than game systems. I mean, sure, in Champions one can easily spend 500 points on both Thor and Hawkeye and have Hawkeye's arrows doing the same damage as Mjolnir. But it wouldn't be true to the source material.

You could easily spend 500 points on both, have Hawkeye's arrows being less powerful than Mjolnir, by the order(s?) of magnitude the fiction says (given that the fiction is hard to pin down, there's some latitude there), but still have both be participating in the same battle meaningfully.
It's a cute trick or dirty little secret, depending on how you look at it, fans call "Hero doubling" - while each "damage class" makes a power only a bit more effective at taking down an enemy, it represents a notional doubling in raw power (this is, again, however un-intuitive, weirdly realistic. which is ironic for a superhero game )

But, yeah, if you're hard over on the fuzzy power of "unlimited strength" the MCU uses to dodge "whose stronger?" questions, nothing concreat can really model it.
(lest some other Hero fan say it, yes, you can go quite a ways with heavily limited extra strength and EGO-rolls to push and uncontrolled powers and whatnot... but, ultimately, points are quantitative and finite)

 

[DrunkonDuty]

One thing I really like about MHRP is that it allows both the fight-y mission and the sneak-y mission to be resolved without the sneak-y turning into just GM-decides.

How does it do that?

 

[DrunkonDuty]

You could easily spend 500 points on both, have Hawkeye's arrows being less powerful than Mjolnir, by the order(s?) of magnitude the fiction says (given that the fiction is hard to pin down, there's some latitude there), but still have both be participating in the same battle meaningfully.
It's a cute trick or dirty little secret, depending on how you look at it, fans call "Hero doubling" - while each "damage class" makes a power only a bit more effective at taking down an enemy, it represents a notional doubling in raw power (this is, again, however un-intuitive, weirdly realistic. which is ironic for a superhero game )

But, yeah, if you're hard over on the fuzzy power of "unlimited strength" the MCU uses to dodge "whose stronger?" questions, nothing concreat can really model it.
(lest some other Hero fan say it, yes, you can go quite a ways with heavily limited extra strength and EGO-rolls to push and uncontrolled powers and whatnot... but, ultimately, points are quantitative and finite)

Definitely. HERO is good at modelling a range of power levels. It's why it's my favourite system.

But, if we want to keep Hawkeye and Thor roughly on par with their comic book selves, putting them in the same situations (a battle, an espionage run, an archery contest) requires some rather specific scenario design in order to accommodate both power levels. For my money, this is something that starts to feel artificial if it happens regularly. YMMV.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How does it do that?

Narratively.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Favorite Supers RPG? That's tricky.

The Wild Talents system (technically One Roll Engine, powering Godlike and Reign as well) has probably one of the most elegant resolution mechanics I've ever seen. And its Paragons setting does an incredible job of modelling a modern "indie" supers setting (ala Rising Stars, Wild Cards, Worm). BUT the power creation mechanics are WONKY, and it handles neither character progression nor high-powered characters well. So great for one shots, and I really wish it was better suited for longer campaigns.

Champions, especially in play, isn't actually all that bad. But you will be throwing ALL your d6's. With an experienced, genre-aware GM, it will be awesome. BUT do not let any minmax/optimizer near the character creation rules. Be very aware that when powers are specifically called out, there IS a reason and one generally learned the hard way. For sanity's sake, have your players submit narrative origins/descriptions and have the GM build the characters. It does handle both character progression and high-power characters well, so good for a long term campaign with experienced players/GMs.

Personally, my favorite all-round is DC Heroes (MEGS), though M&M3e/M&M(DC) is pretty good. For a beginner GM, I really can't think of a better system than the MEGS. It's the 2nd most elegant one I know. 1 roll, 2 chart look-ups that you quickly memorize, and great, easy-to-apply benchmarks. It also has some of the best GM advice I've ever seen - not around running the game, but how to build the stories. Do not bother with Blood of Heroes - both are out-of-print, and the original is so much better.

Those are the ones I have extensive play experience with (including a MEGS/Champions/Shadowrun hybrid that did NOT cure me of system tinkering). I've read some of the others (did you mention Wearing the Cape?) but haven't had a chance to play them seriously. GURPS Supers/Wild Cards isn't bad, but plays substantially similar to Champions. I've seen the FUDGE/FATE system adapted well, but given it's narrative gameplay focus, that's not surprising.

A lot of the others I've got to check out, so thanks VERY much for the listing.

 

[pemerton]

How does it do that?

The basic method is to use Scene Distinctions, which are free-form descriptors that the GM introduces and "manages".

Scene Distinctions can label scenery, geography, architecture, etc: eg Dr Doom's lair might include Weird Magitech Thrumming with Energy.

They can also label mood or significance: eg one of the scenes presented in the Civil War book takes place in Congress, and one Scene Distinction is Hallowed Halls.

They can also label abstracted participants or "extras" in a scene: eg Nosy Press, or Innocent Bystanders, or Crowd of Shoppers, etc.

And they can also label goals or threats: eg in one of the Civil War supplements, a scene is presented that includes the Scene Distinction Get Everyone Aboard the Plane; in a fantasy hack that I GMed, at one point a scene included the Scene Distinction Pursued by Giants.

If a villain is able to ablate the Innocent Bystanders Scene Distinction before the heroes stop them, that's bad for the innocent bystanders! If the heroes are able to ablate the Pursued by Giants Scene Distinction before the giants are able to catch them, they've escaped. Etc.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The basic method is to use Scene Distinctions, which are free-form descriptors that the GM introduces and "manages".

Scene Distinctions can label scenery, geography, architecture, etc: eg Dr Doom's lair might include Weird Magitech Thrumming with Energy.

They can also label mood or significance: eg one of the scenes presented in the Civil War book takes place in Congress, and one Scene Distinction is Hallowed Halls.

They can also label abstracted participants or "extras" in a scene: eg Nosy Press, or Innocent Bystanders, or Crowd of Shoppers, etc.

And they can also label goals or threats: eg in one of the Civil War supplements, a scene is presented that includes the Scene Distinction Get Everyone Aboard the Plane; in a fantasy hack that I GMed, at one point a scene included the Scene Distinction Pursued by Giants.

If a villain is able to ablate the Innocent Bystanders Scene Distinction before the heroes stop them, that's bad for the innocent bystanders! If the heroes are able to ablate the Pursued by Giants Scene Distinction before the giants are able to catch them, they've escaped. Etc.

So, narratively.

 

[pemerton]

narratively: "in a way that relates to the act of telling a story or describing a series of events"


Player of Half-Elf Thief, c 1980 - "I try and pick the NPC's pocket.

GM - "Roll you pick pockets."

<Player rolls d%, gets a result more than 20 above the ability rating>

GM - "The NPC notices your attempt, and turns on you angrily. What do you do?"

Me: OMG, narrative resolution!

 

[Reynard]

Definitely. HERO is good at modelling a range of power levels. It's why it's my favourite system.

But, if we want to keep Hawkeye and Thor roughly on par with their comic book selves, putting them in the same situations (a battle, an espionage run, an archery contest) requires some rather specific scenario design in order to accommodate both power levels. For my money, this is something that starts to feel artificial if it happens regularly. YMMV.

To be fair, it feels pretty artificial in comics, too.

 

[Reynard]

narratively: "in a way that relates to the act of telling a story or describing a series of events"


Player of Half-Elf Thief, c 1980 - "I try and pick the NPC's pocket.

GM - "Roll you pick pockets."

<Player rolls d%, gets a result more than 20 above the ability rating>

GM - "The NPC notices your attempt, and turns on you angrily. What do you do?"

Me: OMG, narrative resolution!

I think some folks see a difference between narrative adjudication and narrative descriptions of outcomes following mechanical adjudication. That is, it is the rules' job to determine the probability of success or failure and the GM's job to determine what the fallout of that is. As opposed to the GM being equally involved in the former.

 

[pemerton]

I think some folks see a difference between narrative adjudication and narrative descriptions of outcomes following mechanical adjudication. That is, it is the rules' job to determine the probability of success or failure and the GM's job to determine what the fallout of that is. As opposed to the GM being equally involved in the former.

The bolded bit describes Apocalypse World, Burning Wheel, Torchbearer and Prince Valiant (unless you count setting the difficulty as a "narrative" RPG - in which case 5e D&D is "narrative).

 

[Reynard]

The bolded bit describes Apocalypse World, Burning Wheel, Torchbearer and Prince Valiant (unless you count setting the difficulty as a "narrative" RPG - in which case 5e D&D is "narrative).

I think it describes all rpgs with a GM. That's the GMs job.

 

[aramis erak]

How does it do that?

Many ways, but the easiest is that one can use a roll to create a die-rated character, scene, or object condition, which then can be tagged in later rolls.
Keep in mind, it's always roll many, keep 2, and the biggest unkept is the effect level. Effect level
You get 1 power per power set with that power's die (Most have 1 set, some have 2, a few have 3)
1 die for affiliation conditions
1 Distinction - d4 as hindrance, d8 as boon.
1 die for a suitable specialty
1 d6 for a relevant tool
1 condition - from opponent injury or other condition
1 scene trait.

To create a scene trait, either you drop a plot point and take it as a d6, or you make a roll, using relevant powers, and have to beat the doom pool, which is also keep 2, or you buy an opponent's 1's as complications.
If you do, the largest die (most sides) that wasn't one of the two counted is used as the condition's strength. (Injuries are a subtype of conditions, and conditions of traits - traits are anything with a die code...)

Situation from a game I ran back in 2017.
So, Spidey is scouting ahead in a building, he hears guards. He is willing to risk a turn to make a hidey hole on the shaded part of the ceiling, so his red and blue isn't a giveaway...
Affilitation: Others are in a different scene but the same action sequence, but I let him have the solo d8
Distinction: Wisecracker - as a d4 - and a plot point.
Spider Powers set: Enhanced Senses to know he's got to get in there: d8
Web Slinging set: Enhanced durability seems closest... d8
Covert Expert d8
So, 4d8 and 1d4 total. He drops a plot point for d6 shadow as a scene trait
I don't remember the exact rolls, but that he got a complication was relevant so, we'll fake it.
D8's 8, 7, 2, 1; d6 3; d4 2
Doom pool was 6d6 at that point. I rolled a pair of 6's, no 1's, and don't recall the rest.
the d8 on a 1 is discarded, and the player is offered a condition - d4 "Gotta Pee". He takes it and the plot point.
So, to pass, he has to keep the 8 and 7 on d8's. that leaves a d8 on 2... it has more sides than the remaining d6 and d4.
So his nest is d8.

When he hides in it next round, he gets
Solo D8
Wisecracker d4 and Plot Point.
Spider Set: Wall Crawler d6
Web Set: enhanced durability d8
Covert Expert d8
Webbed Nest d8 - he is skipping the d6 scene condition shadows, as it's only a d6, and you can't tag two scene conditions at once without spending a Plot Point for the second.

The guards, being basic grunts, barely get three dice to spot him, and all at d6's. They also get a free tag of one of spidey's conditions... since he's uninjured and carrying none but the Gotta Pee... that's the one they tag - at a d4. So I'm rolling 6d6 & 1d4. I need the doom pool gains...
but i didn't need 4 1's... they opt for a big one: Power Out d10... That's turning the doom pool into 3d8+1d10... but the guards are now fairly worthless...

Next round, spidey will wall crawl back to the group, with a swingline safety, covert expert, solo, and the new d10 power out and its implied darkness... the round after that, he aimed for a shrubbery.

 

[aramis erak]

I think it describes all rpgs with a GM. That's the GMs job.

not always. A few make it clear there is no difficulty other than "needs a roll" or "doesn't need a roll."

Mouse guard has a very interesting rigid difficulty system, not presented as optional (but usually treated as such by those from more story-first game experience)... if it weren't for the scripting, it could be played solo thanks to that difficulty system.

 

[Nutation]

Personally, my favorite all-round is DC Heroes (MEGS), though M&M3e/M&M(DC) is pretty good. For a beginner GM, I really can't think of a better system than the MEGS. It's the 2nd most elegant one I know. 1 roll, 2 chart look-ups that you quickly memorize, and great, easy-to-apply benchmarks. It also has some of the best GM advice I've ever seen - not around running the game, but how to build the stories. Do not bother with Blood of Heroes - both are out-of-print, and the original is so much better.

Champions is my first love. But,DC Heroes does simplicity and elegance best without sacrificing crunch. The logarithmic scale for everything means it can handle a huge range of power levels. A powerful-enough character can search the entire planet for a hidden opponent in one action and one opposed roll.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Many ways, but the easiest is that one can use a roll to create a die-rated character, scene, or object condition, which then can be tagged in later rolls.
Keep in mind, it's always roll many, keep 2, and the biggest unkept is the effect level. Effect level
You get 1 power per power set with that power's die (Most have 1 set, some have 2, a few have 3)
1 die for affiliation conditions
1 Distinction - d4 as hindrance, d8 as boon.
1 die for a suitable specialty
1 d6 for a relevant tool
1 condition - from opponent injury or other condition
1 scene trait.

To create a scene trait, either you drop a plot point and take it as a d6, or you make a roll, using relevant powers, and have to beat the doom pool, which is also keep 2, or you buy an opponent's 1's as complications.
If you do, the largest die (most sides) that wasn't one of the two counted is used as the condition's strength. (Injuries are a subtype of conditions, and conditions of traits - traits are anything with a die code...)

Situation from a game I ran back in 2017.
So, Spidey is scouting ahead in a building, he hears guards. He is willing to risk a turn to make a hidey hole on the shaded part of the ceiling, so his red and blue isn't a giveaway...
Affilitation: Others are in a different scene but the same action sequence, but I let him have the solo d8
Distinction: Wisecracker - as a d4 - and a plot point.
Spider Powers set: Enhanced Senses to know he's got to get in there: d8
Web Slinging set: Enhanced durability seems closest... d8
Covert Expert d8
So, 4d8 and 1d4 total. He drops a plot point for d6 shadow as a scene trait
I don't remember the exact rolls, but that he got a complication was relevant so, we'll fake it.
D8's 8, 7, 2, 1; d6 3; d4 2
Doom pool was 6d6 at that point. I rolled a pair of 6's, no 1's, and don't recall the rest.
the d8 on a 1 is discarded, and the player is offered a condition - d4 "Gotta Pee". He takes it and the plot point.
So, to pass, he has to keep the 8 and 7 on d8's. that leaves a d8 on 2... it has more sides than the remaining d6 and d4.
So his nest is d8.

When he hides in it next round, he gets
Solo D8
Wisecracker d4 and Plot Point.
Spider Set: Wall Crawler d6
Web Set: enhanced durability d8
Covert Expert d8
Webbed Nest d8 - he is skipping the d6 scene condition shadows, as it's only a d6, and you can't tag two scene conditions at once without spending a Plot Point for the second.

The guards, being basic grunts, barely get three dice to spot him, and all at d6's. They also get a free tag of one of spidey's conditions... since he's uninjured and carrying none but the Gotta Pee... that's the one they tag - at a d4. So I'm rolling 6d6 & 1d4. I need the doom pool gains...
but i didn't need 4 1's... they opt for a big one: Power Out d10... That's turning the doom pool into 3d8+1d10... but the guards are now fairly worthless...

Next round, spidey will wall crawl back to the group, with a swingline safety, covert expert, solo, and the new d10 power out and its implied darkness... the round after that, he aimed for a shrubbery.

Wow. And people say Champions is complicated.

I do like the scene tagging concept. It's always better to have these things explicit in one's mind, or even written out for all players to see. I can see it really helping set the scene for the group.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Wow. And people say Champions is complicated.

I do like the scene tagging concept. It's always better to have these things explicit in one's mind, or even written out for all players to see. I can see it really helping set the scene for the group.

Nobody ever said that narrative mechanics equals rules-light.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Nobody ever said that narrative mechanics equals rules-light.

I'm sure lots of people have. Looks like they may have been mistaken.

But, usually "rules lite" means "I've been playing this game since I was 8, and it's totally easy and intuitive, the perfect game for new players.... " in a sort of I've-long-since-forgotten-how-much-I-know-on-this-subject kinda way.

...there's some fancy p-sychology term for that, but I forget it...

 

[Lord Shark]

Wow. And people say Champions is complicated.

I do like the scene tagging concept. It's always better to have these things explicit in one's mind, or even written out for all players to see. I can see it really helping set the scene for the group.

It's not particularly difficult once you wrap your head around it, but then you can say the same thing about building a character in Champions, which to me has always felt like way too much work. I liked DC Heroes back in the 90s, but again, I don't think it holds up particularly well today.

While it has issues, MHR is still my favorite supers game, and with the addition of Cortex Prime it's easy to tinker with the rules to get them closer to what I want.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Champions chargen can definitely be complicated. But you do it once.

Tracking all those things in play in MHR ... it sounds like a constant work load, every session.