D&D 5E Feat at 1st Level: How To Go About It?

[Sacrosanct]

Well, I'm not going to go back and look for every playtest survey result that was released. But it's pretty common knowledge that there are large groups of players who do not like feats, and that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 3.5. Why do you think they made feats optional, instead of part of the assumed baseline? It's because there are a ton of people who don't like them and/or won't use them for any number of reasons.

This isn't anecdotal at all. Sort of the opposite, since I'm not basing this off of my own personal experience, but on actual data and what the design team has said in the past.

 

[MindxKiller]

Well, I'm not going to go back and look for every playtest survey result that was released. But it's pretty common knowledge that there are large groups of players who do not like feats, and that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 3.5. Why do you think they made feats optional, instead of part of the assumed baseline? It's because there are a ton of people who don't like them and/or won't use them for any number of reasons.


This isn't anecdotal at all. Sort of the opposite, since I'm not basing this off of my own personal experience, but on actual data and what the design team has said in the past.

If there was actually an official survey, then you're right it's not anecdotal. I just haven't seen said survey, as well as the fact that every survey I've seen on these forums has been OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of feats, so I assumed your comment was anecdotal. If not, I appologize.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

The Skilled feat gives 3 skills or tool proficiencies. So I'd just give everyone either a feat or 3 extra skill/tool proficiencies (the Skilled feat).

Thank you. I'd forgotten about the Skilled feat.

I was basing my estimations of a feat's worth compared to ability scores on the adjustments to the variant human, but if the Skilled feat gives that much of a bonus, the designers probably thought that a feat at first level was worth more than +2 to an ability score (since, the variant human loses 1 from each of four scores, but only gains one feat and one skill proficiency). This makes the variant human very interesting in the mix.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I don't think its that big of a deal to do but I would not let anyone take the Variant Human since everyone already has a feat at first level.

Considering that the variant human would be down four ability score points for a feat and proficiency in one skill, it would seem like a sub-par trade, to me. I'm not sure why they didn't just let the variant human have two feats instead of (seemingly) overcharging (by two ability score points) for proficiency in a single skill?

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I've never met anyone who would balk at something free, but if you've met someone like that, I guess the best option is to give them an Ability Score Increase instead, then as per the normal rules for ASIs, they can trade it in for a feat.

This is what I'll likely end up doing. I was leery of allowing scores to potentially exceed the normal thresholds set by point buy (max 17 with racial +2). Though, I could say that the ability score increase option at 1st level wouldn't allow the raising of a score beyond 17. So, it would make a more rounded character rather than one with a stat outside the point-buy ranges. And, I am leaning that way as I am used to players building lopsided characters, score-wise, with point buys in PF/3X. So, I really like that 5E reigns that in by limiting the initial point buy to scores between 8 and 15. And, I don't want to break that range.

This is an option I'll consider.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

if they dont like it, they can take +2 to ability.

Having a score of 18/19 at first level is a feat of its own.

I'm leery of breaking the cap of 17 at first level, for now. Even my min-maxer player has complained about stats being too high when we played 3.5/PF and earlier test runs of 5E using PF's point-buy system. Especially, when he takes a turn at DMing.

 

[Leatherhead]

Trading 2 points from your attacking stat for a feat seems like a logical solution. Until you can't hit anything, or you are forced into the encounters where you can't get the full bonus of your feat.

Having played a feat heavy character, I would not recommend doing so if it costs you more stats.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

To be honest why are you offering them free feats? If you feel strongly, start the players at level 4 when they get the option of a feat anyway!

I'm against giving away unearned levels. Haven't done it since the 80's.

But no, seriously, feats are not something to give out at low level without damaging the balance of play. The only thing I'd recommend doing is having a player give up their Background benefits to pay for the feat - that is 2 skills and languages/tool proficiencies which would balance things out. Just deny them the skilled feat in case a smart alec tries to make that trade.

That's an interesting idea, but I like the backgrounds part of 5E quite a bit. I'd probably allow that, though, if a player asked to give up their skills and such from their background in exchange for a feat. Seems like a fair trade (even the Skilled feat doesn't seem too overpowered in this trade).

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I would make it -1 to 4 different stats, and you gain a feat, a skill and free language.

No, I would make it -1 to their 2 highest stats, or -2 to their highest stat, to get that feat.

I lean toward thalmin's position on this. I wouldn't want to see any scores drop below 8. Nor would I want to see a player take a -1 in their character's lowest four scores.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

If you're worried about stat's getting too high, and only want them to have a free feat and not an ASI, I would just say that to them.

Yes, I am worried about that.

If none of the book feats suit, ask reluctant players to work with you to make a custom feat. Even if they dont normally like feats, there will be something they'll like if they have a hand in making it. It could of course be a "half feat", with a +1 stat and moderate other bonus. If the player dislikes complexity, the moderate bonus could have a static quality, like bonus HP, adv on a skill or a more nebulous benefit left to the DM to determine, such as knowledge of local safe houses or streetwise contacts who feed him interesting/useful info from time to time.

I like this one. I am a fan of custom feats.