D&D (2024) Feat Levels vs Feat Chains

[CleverNickName]

I'm okay with 2 level chains, but 3+ and it's a problem.
And specifically, I mean feats that require a 1st-level (aka Background-granted) feat to build off of, but can be taken only at a specific higher level threshhold (4/8/12/etc).

And that's it. No 3rd feat. No 8th level feats that require 4th level feats, etc.

I see the E6 Rules from 20 years ago are still relevant today.

 

[Marandahir]

I see the E6 Rules from 20 years ago are still relevant today.

E6 Rules are fascinating and news to me but also very much in line with the division of storytelling I've seen run in 3e, 4e, and 5e games. Cool.

I think this is somewhat missing the rationale of my argument.

I'm totally cool with 12th-level restricted feats, 16th-level ones, etc.
I just don't want the game to lock player's in where they're running a suboptimised character if they don't invest their limited feat resources at every level bump up on a single feat concept that evolves over time to have new but releated swiss-army knife features.

So let there be a more powerful feat that builds off of background-suggested feats, or background-restricted feats in some campaign settings (Like Knight of Solamnia or Witherbloom College). But also include various higher level feats that COULD play nicely with that build but could also play nicely with other builds.

Feats are class-less class features. The more applicable they are to different types of characters, the better.

I say that feat chains should only build off of 1st level feats because the background feat is balanced quite differently than 4th or 8th etc feats are, and everyone gets one, so it's your door into the world of feats rather than just an optional alternative to an ASI. ASIs should look desirable to take as well (and honestly, I'd rename the ASIs into the ability score feats of editions past).

 

[Maxperson]

I'm okay with 2 level chains, but 3+ and it's a problem.
And specifically, I mean feats that require a 1st-level (aka Background-granted) feat to build off of, but can be taken only at a specific higher level threshhold (4/8/12/etc).

And that's it. No 3rd feat. No 8th level feats that require 4th level feats, etc.

I think an 8th level feat that requires a 4th level feat is fine if the 4th doesn't require a 1st level feat. That's still a 2 feat chain.

 

[Mephista]

I'm kinda expecting a Magic Initiate feat chains that goes from 1 to 19 and gives you a spell for every level.

Imagine a spell sword made entirely by feats.

 

[Marandahir]

I'm kinda expecting a Magic Initiate feat chains that goes from 1 to 19 and gives you a spell for every level.

Imagine a spell sword made entirely by feats.

You could build Weapons of Legacy that way too - think how InuYasha's Tessaiga gains new powers over the course of his adventure, and each does a new and cool thing. They're all tied into his sword and its fundamental ability to steal the abilities of other demons, but they're all basically classless class features, unaccessible without that particular weapon and unrelated to his inherent demon abilities and his Beserker Barbarian tendencies (he could also be built with Path of the Beast, now that I think of it).

 

[tetrasodium]

I'm kinda expecting a Magic Initiate feat chains that goes from 1 to 19 and gives you a spell for every level.

Imagine a spell sword made entirely by feats.

I think that's a stretch fir that many but I'd love to see those types of feats just add an extra spell known & an extra generic level X slot usable with any spell rather than the convoluted know x spell & cast once per long rest w/o using a slot. That kind of change would make it easier to track on physical & digital sheets.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm kinda expecting a Magic Initiate feat chains that goes from 1 to 19 and gives you a spell for every level.

Imagine a spell sword made entirely by feats.

Wow! Talk about making wizards better!

 

[Mephista]

You could build Weapons of Legacy that way too - think how InuYasha's Tessaiga gains new powers over the course of his adventure, and each does a new and cool thing. They're all tied into his sword and its fundamental ability to steal the abilities of other demons, but they're all basically classless class features, unaccessible without that particular weapon and unrelated to his inherent demon abilities and his Beserker Barbarian tendencies (he could also be built with Path of the Beast, now that I think of it).

Oooooohhhhhhh. Me likes. Though, if the Crafting feat is anything to go by, we might end up with gold as magic items XP track again.

I think that's a stretch fir that many but I'd love to see those types of feats just add an extra spell known & an extra generic level X slot usable with any spell rather than the convoluted know x spell & cast once per long rest w/o using a slot. That kind of change would make it easier to track on physical & digital sheets.

Maybe. But if they don't do it, I will. I'll even throw in the option to build off racial spell lists instead of Magic Initiate.
As for the proposed change... I don't see an issue, not sure if I'd call it easier on digital sheets... A pain to code, I bet

Wow! Talk about making wizards better!

They're the Wizard's of the Coast after all. Gotta be the best class!

 

[tetrasodium]

Oooooohhhhhhh. Me likes. Though, if the Crafting feat is anything to go by, we might end up with gold as magic items XP track again.

Maybe. But if they don't do it, I will. I'll even throw in the option to build off racial spell lists instead of Magic Initiate.
As for the proposed change... I don't see an issue, not sure if I'd call it easier on digital sheets... A pain to code, I bet

They're the Wizard's of the Coast after all. Gotta be the best class!

digital includes form fillable PDFs. More advanced stuff like the ddb sheets can just add +1 to the level N slots instead of putting a useless "and you can cast it obce per long rest without using a slot"

 

[hipster_benches]

I like the idea of gating feats behind levels. I don't mind feat chains, but I don't think they would work that well in 5e because you get so few opportunities to take them. And I don't think WotC is going to change up when or how you can take feats. Most feats already have multiple elements to them, so what I would do is gate the different bullet points of feats behind levels, and maybe revise some of them at the same time.

So for Sharpshooter, it'd be:
Level 4: you double the normal range of your ranged weapons, and targets in the long range have half cover against your attacks instead of you making attacks with disadvantage.
Level 8: you get the level 4 benefits, and you can take a -5 penalty to attack rolls but do +10 damage.
Level 12: you get the level 4 and level 8 benefits, and your ranged attacks are no longer affected by half or three quarters cover.

So if you waited until 12 you just get everything, but if you want to take it earlier you aren't overpowered. You still get the feeling of progress that feat chains provide, but you aren't as locked in because the feats just get better over time. And you can hold off some of the more problematic parts of feats until later levels like 12 or 16.