Feat: No armor expertise; input needed

[med stud]

I have created a feat that is made with fighters in mind that are fighting with no armor. What I want is input from people who know the game better than I do (and I know there are lots of people like that here ). Here is the feat:

No armor expertise I-IV (project name)
Prerequisites: Can only be taken as a fighter bonus feat
Benefit: NAE (No Armor Expertise) I gives +1 armor bonus, NAE II +2, NAE III +2 and NAE IV +3. The bonuses are cumulative for a maximum of +8 armor bonus.
Normal: No armor bonus without armor.

Reasonings behind the feat:
The choice of bonus: Armor bonus is usually reserved for armors and force fields and stuff but it was chosen anyway so that it wouldnt stack with bracers of armor. What the feat chain does now is that it essentially creates a full plate armor with no dex limit for the fighter. The reasonings may be what they may, but I thought the armor bonus was best from a balance POV.
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The existence of the feat: Mainly because of multiclassed fighter/(arcane spell-users) and for the classical swordsmaster without armor. With these feats a fighter can fulfill a tank role without wearing full plate. For fighter/wizards and stuff it makes it possible to have a reasonably even-leveled fightermage without being too hosed in the AC-department. I think the fightermage is a stereotype from fantasy that is worth encouraging and I dont like solving the problem with a prestige class (=Eldritch Knight).
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The strange prerequisite: Well here I was at a loss. If the only prerequisite was Fighter-lvl X it would either be too high (thematically) or too low (so that monks would take levels in Fighter for obscene AC). A better prerequisite that still fulfills my goals in this aspect would be welcome.
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The progression of the bonuses: See above. A dip into fighter shouldnt yield +3 AC.
Why a feat for fighters? It should be more fitting for rogues and monks? Well IMO fighters should be masters of physical combat if they want. They have few skill points and a limited skill list and no mystical powers. Besides fighters are one of the classes that uses heavy armor the most so for them it is not a given feat the same way it would be for monks and rogues.

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Well thank you for reading all this and thanks in advance for feedback. I need it really much as I will drop this feat into the campaign when it's done and I dont fully trust my judgement on these matters.

 

[Technik4]

Unfettered Style [Fighter]
You practice a wild style which requires the upmost of mobility.
Prerequisite: Dex 15+
Benefit: You gain an Armor Bonus equal to 1/2 your Fighter class level (maximum +4) as long as you are not flat-footed and have a weapon readied (if you have a natural attack or unarmed strike, that counts as a weapon readied). This bonus does not stack with conventional armor (but it does stack with shields).


Improved Unfettered Style [Fighter]
You have improved the style so you unconsciously react to combat situations.
Prerequisite: Dex 17+, Unfettered Style
Benefit: The maximum armor bonus increases to +6 and this bonus applies even when you are flat-footed (though not if you are paralyzed or unable to move).


Greater Unfettered Style [Fighter]
Your abandon for combat does not even require a weapon.
Prerequisite: Dex 19+, Unfettered Style, Improved Unfettered Style
Benefit: The maximum armor bonus increases to +8 and this bonus applies even if you do not have a weapon readied. You still lose this bonus if you are paralyzed or unable to move.


Just my .02 (by the way, these are loosely based off the "Unfettered" class from Aracan Unearthed and Arcana Evolved).

Technik

Edited: To reflect the progressive nature and to clarify that you must be mobile/awake to get the benefit.

 

[med stud]

Thanks Technik4, I really like those feats! They are better than mine were really.

 

[silvermane]

I suppose that the early feats were to be prerequisites for the late ones (otherwise you can just roll a character with 18 Dex and skip US in favor of IUS).

You also should mention in GUS that it (also) doesn't give a benefit when paralyzed or unable to move (does sleeping count as unable to move?)

 

[Hodgie]

I really like those feats but I think it runs into the same problem as all other non-armored fighter paths: it costs feats. Three feats to gain a +8 armor bonus (and then only at 16th level) just isn't worth it. At that same point the fighter is going to be wearing some seriously magical fullplate for a higher AC bonus*. Now I realize that this has (a) style, (b) no cost, and (c) more style over armor, but we are still looking at a massive feat expenditure for what boils down to character preference.

*I realize that unlimited dexterity and no armor check penalty are bonuses, but IMO they do not make up for the feat loss. Not to mention that anything you put into dexterity the fullplate fighter put into strength, meaning he is out damaging you many times over.

While I think your feats are very well done, such characters are better emulated through classes than feats imo.

 

[med stud]

I really like those feats but I think it runs into the same problem as all other non-armored fighter paths: it costs feats. Three feats to gain a +8 armor bonus (and then only at 16th level) just isn't worth it. At that same point the fighter is going to be wearing some seriously magical fullplate for a higher AC bonus*. Now I realize that this has (a) style, (b) no cost, and (c) more style over armor, but we are still looking at a massive feat expenditure for what boils down to character preference.

*I realize that unlimited dexterity and no armor check penalty are bonuses, but IMO they do not make up for the feat loss. Not to mention that anything you put into dexterity the fullplate fighter put into strength, meaning he is out damaging you many times over.

While I think your feats are very well done, such characters are better emulated through classes than feats imo.

You have a point about the feats, I was thinking about that too. I concluded, though, that not only does this feat give you full movement and unlimited Dex-bonus but it also frees up cash for the armor. But I will go through some characters with this feat and compare them to characters with armor and check it out.

 

[Cheiromancer]

The main issue I have with Technik4's feats is their progressive nature; feats are not supposed to be level dependent. Now WotC sometimes breaks these rules, but as a general rule it is not a good idea. My other issue is that they seem a little weak. 3 feats to get a +8 AC at 16th level isn't quite enough.

I think something like this would be about right:

No Armor I [Fighter]
Unencumbered by armor, you use your weapons for defense as well as offense.
Pre-requisite: BAB +1, proficient with light armor.
Benefit: As long as you threaten adjacent squares you gain a +4 armor bonus. For the purpose of feats and class abilities you are treated as if you are wearing light metal armor.

No Armor II [Fighter]
Your fighting style blocks attacks better than most armor.
Pre-requisite: BAB +3, No Armor I, proficient with medium armor.
Benefit: As long as you threaten adjacent squares you gain a +8 armor bonus. For the purpose of feats and class abilities you are treated as if you are wearing medium metal armor.

No Armor III [Fighter]
You can parry and block almost all incoming attacks.
Pre-requisite: BAB +6, No Armor II, No Armor I, proficient with heavy armor.
Benefit: As long as you threaten adjacent squares you gain a +12 armor bonus. For the purpose of feats and class abilities you are treated as if you are wearing heavy metal armor.

Reasoning:

These are armor bonuses, so they don't stack with other armor bonuses (like bracers), but they do stack with shields. Since the character is treated as wearing armor, he can't use abilities or feats that are intended to provide protection to unarmored characters. Note that monks and druids can't use these feats without losing their powers. Wizards can (if they have the right proficiencies), but the feat cost is high, and at higher levels they would probably just use bracers of defense.

NoA I is like a chain shirt, mage armor, or that psionic feat (inertial armor?). It doesn't apply if the fighter is unarmed or flat-footed, unless the fighter has feats or abilities that allow him to threaten under those conditions.

The value of the other feats I set by using Upper Krust's notion that 1 feat = 1 character level worth of treasure, and figuring out what that would buy if spent on bracers of defense (value = bonus squared times 1000 gp). Since the character is stuck with these feats for his whole career, I used the wealth for level 11 for NoA II (the average of 3rd and 20th level), and the wealth for level 13 for NoA III (average of 6th and 20th level). And I used UK's wealth progressions; level cubed times 100 gp.

Actually, I wanted the bonuses to go +4, +8, +12, so I used UK's charts to set the BAB pre-requisites.

These feats are quite good when they first apply- a 3rd level fighter could have the rough equivalent of a +3 mithral breastplate, but I figure that the opportunity cost at early levels is very high- fighters are stretched for feats as they try to complete key feat chains. By the time they catch up, their armored comrades have quite nifty magical armor of their own (+4 plate mail, say). The no-armored fighters will have the advantage of better skill rolls (though armors can be glamered to allow this as well) and being able to sleep in their armor, and will have more money for weapons, shields and other items, but will have spent 3 feats for these advantages.

 

[jaker2003]

a couple points:

* if you're using your weapon, maybe you should be able to apply the enhancement bonus to AC in some circumstances?

*maybe we could introduce a feat that allows your skin to carry magic armor special abilities, like Fortification and Invulnerability (these qualities are suppressed while the character wears armor)?

 

[Murazor]

While I like the idea, no serious fighter is ever going to take feats like this. Ultimately, you will have spent 4 feats, for a paltry +8 armor bonus to AC. Why not just cough up 64k gp for Bracers of Armor +8? They also give you an armor bonus. And if you want to go around without any armor, classes like the Duelist or Invisible Blade grant you a bonus on AC while unarmored as a class feature, without having to spend several feats on them.

 

[dungeon blaster]

How about magical tattoos that allow armor special properties?