Feat: No armor expertise; input needed

[Baron Opal]

Perhaps a feat that allows the character to have their body enchanted as armor, or to develop natural armor. That allows the character to invest their wealth into defense with a minimum feat cost.

 

[Thondor]

You could simply make a change that this unarmored fighter has no armor proficiency but gains an armor bonus at a rate of 1/2 fighter level (round up). Perhaps you could also cost them their first level bonus feat (or perhaps just require them to take Dodge which has always seemed underpowered to me)

I feel this would be balanced at 20th level your fighter will have a +10 which would be +3 less then the fighter in +5 full plate but would allow for a more mobile character.
This bonus would not stack with bracer's of armor though it should stack with spells and shields.

 

[magic_gathering2001]

problem #1

as stated it stacks with bracers of armor and such so your only missing the Armors AC

problem #2

monks the supreme unarmed/unarmored fighters dont get a plus 8 bonus until 40th level

 

[Cheiromancer]

problem #1

as stated it stacks with bracers of armor and such so your only missing the Armors AC

problem #2

monks the supreme unarmed/unarmored fighters dont get a plus 8 bonus until 40th level

It is specifically stated that it does *not* stack with bracers of armor.

And Monks get their wisdom bonus to their AC; their AC from that alone will likely be +8 by the time they get to 20th level. And they don't have to spend any feats to do it.

 

[magic_gathering2001]

ok then i deem them cheapskates feats

they are the feat versions of bracers of armor

also if your going to do this why don't you just ditch monks entirely too

wwhere does it say that anyway

 

[Cheiromancer]

Reasonings behind the feat:
The choice of bonus: Armor bonus is usually reserved for armors and force fields and stuff but it was chosen anyway so that it wouldnt stack with bracers of armor. What the feat chain does now is that it essentially creates a full plate armor with no dex limit for the fighter. The reasonings may be what they may, but I thought the armor bonus was best from a balance POV.

Emphasis added.

My version retains this feature.

These are armor bonuses, so they don't stack with other armor bonuses (like bracers)

As to monks, well, there is more to being a monk than going around unarmored.

And yes, they do save you money, since you have no reason to buy bracers of your own.

 

[magic_gathering2001]

thank you for the insights

 

[ZuulMoG]

An intriguing idea, but I don't see a rationale behind it. It might look better like this...

Improved Combat Expertise
Unencumbered by armor, you use your weapons for defense as well as offense.
Pre-requisites: BAB +6, Combat Expertise, Dodge
Benefit: When using Combat Expertise for defense while wearing no armor, you gain a 2-point Dodge bonus to AC for every point of attack sacrificed each round, instead of the 1:1 bonus normally granted by Combat Expertise. If you do not use Combat Expertise for defense, you gain a +1 shield bonus when armed with a melee weapon.

Greater Combat Expertise
Unencumbered by armor, you use your weapons for defense as well as offense.
Pre-requisites: BAB +11, Combat Expertise, Improved Parrying, Dodge
Benefit: When using Combat Expertise for defense while wearing no armor, you gain a 3-point Dodge bonus to AC for every point of attack sacrificed each round, instead of the 1:1 bonus normally granted by Combat Expertise. If you do not use Combat Expertise for defense, you gain a +2 shield bonus when armed with a melee weapon.

Superior Combat Expertise
Unencumbered by armor, you use your weapons for defense as well as offense.
Pre-requisites: BAB +16, Combat Expertise, Improved Parrying, Greater Parrying, Dodge
Benefit: When using Combat Expertise for defense while wearing no armor, you gain a 4-point Dodge bonus to AC for every point of attack sacrificed each round, instead of the 1:1 bonus normally granted by Combat Expertise. If you do not use Combat Expertise for defense, you gain a +3 shield bonus when armed with a melee weapon.

Epic Combat Expertise (Epic Feat)
Unencumbered by armor, you use your weapons for defense as well as offense.
Pre-requisites: Epic Attack Bonus +1, Combat Expertise, Improved Parrying, Greater Parrying, Superior Parrying, Dodge
Benefit: When using Combat Expertise for defense while wearing no armor, you gain a 5-point Dodge bonus to AC for every point of attack sacrificed each round, instead of the 1:1 bonus normally granted by Combat Expertise. If you do not use Combat Expertise for defense, you gain a +4 shield bonus when armed with a melee weapon.

While I have no immediate objection to adding a Dexterity requirement, I honestly think this is a very balanced feat chain, and adding such would only bog it down. If you do insist on adding it, I would suggest that you also apply a bonus to the use of feats in the Expertise Group (Disarm, Feint, Trip) for advanced levels of this feat (+2 per feat to the contested roll?). Doing such would make this feat the 'Improved Metamagic' of fighting, and allow those feats to continue to be useful at higher levels when facing opponents that are more skilled and stronger. Note that the automatic parry bonus granted by each level does not stack with previous levels. It is a bonus that makes the feat useful even when not using Combat Expertise so you don't have an entire feat chain stinking up your character sheet when you're not prancing around like a scared fairy with an over-sized butterknife.

EDIT: Got home and checked my books for name of Combat Expertise AC bonus (Dodge), plus minor additions, changed parry bonus to shield bonus (just seems right).

 

[Hawken]

How are you justifying providing an armor bonus without there being any actual armor involved? No natural armor, no thick skin or whatever, just a technique? Techniques don't provide armor. It would probably be closer to a Dodge bonus and while they stack, they also are negated if the character cannot move. Choosing the bonus to be an armor bonus simply so the benefit doesn't stack with an armor bonus is simply unimaginative. If you have to create a feat for this, then just put a limitation on it that states that the person doesn't get any benefit from the feat if he is wearing any armor. Or maybe allow the person to wear light armor at the most.

If this is for Fighters, then why not strip the fighter of his armor proficiencies at 1st level, except for Light. Give him a +4 Dodge bonus to AC for the loss of Heavy Armor Proficiency, restricting that it cannot be used unless wearing light or no armor. For the loss of Medium Armor Proficiency, increase that bonus by +1 at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th. That will grant a total of +10 to AC by 18th level. Light armor will allow him best use of his Dexterity while still able to wear some type of armor. The bonus tops out better than Full Plate, but it also has the restriction of depending on the Fighter's ability to move and react.

No feats are lost, the fighter gets an AC bonus in exchange for proficiency with medium/heavy armor and game balance is maintained. If the Fighter wants to use medium or heavy armor later on, then he can use one of his feats to gain proficiency for that but then he loses the benefit of this ability.

One thing about all the different sources that have come out since the PHB, is that so many new feats are out there and many of them are not feats at all but things that a character should be able to do normally. Parrying is part of Combat Expertise, there doesn't need to be a feat for it.

ZuulMoG's string of feats are wasteful but also crazy. If a Fighter took those feats, he could lower his BAB by 5 and increase his AC by 20! No DM in his right mind would go for that when I have seen characters without such feats and with decent magic items wind up with a 30+ AC, combine that with those feats and you're looking at a 20th level character with an AC greater than 50 while suffering an insignificant loss to BAB.

 

[Felnar]

Improved Parrying
Unencumbered by armor, you use your weapons for defense as well as offense.
Pre-requisites: BAB +6, Combat Expertise, Dodge
Benefit: When using Combat Expertise for defense while wearing no armor, you gain a 2-point bonus (of same name as that granted by Combat Expertise) to AC for every point of attack sacrificed each round, instead of the 1:1 bonus normally granted by Combat Expertise. If you do not use Combat Expertise for defense, you gain a +1 parry bonus when armed with a melee weapon.

this gives me an idea to help shield-fighters.
since two-handed power attack gives 2 for 1
have combat expertise with shield give 2 for 1
no feat required (other than combat expertise)