Feat Problems With PHB II

KarinsDad

Adventurer
I was reading through the plethora of feats that WotC came up with for PHB II and found quite a few that I consider either broken or not worth the paper they are written on:

Acrobatic Strike: +4 to hit against opponent you just Tumbled successfully past (the list states +6 which is even worse, what is it with recent WotC editing?). +4 is way too high. You rarely see +4 to hit in the game (except Prone). For a flanking Rogue, this practically ensures that he will hit and Sneak Attack his opponent virtually every time and since the prereq for this feat is 12 Ranks of Tumble, it is basically impossible for a Rogue at that point to miss the Tumble check (since 1s are not failures for skills).

Crossbow Sniper: 1/2 Dex modifier on specific bow damage. Weapon Specialization gives a +2 to damage for one weapon, but it is limited to Fighters. This feat can be more powerful and is not limited to Fighters. A high level 26 Dex PC would do +4 damage with this feat. Even at low level, it is the equivalent to Weapon Specialization, but it can get better as the character increases level. And, it stacks with Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization.

Cunning Evasion: Can move 5 feet and hide as immediate action after successful Evasion. This concept that characters can suddenly do the equivalent of Move Actions (or part of a movement action) as an Immediate Action is just plain bogus. WotC has Immediate Actions on the brain. This one is not so much broken as it is just plain annoying and questionable to adjudicate. They should spell out more clearly on this one whether the 5' step can be done if the previous action had movement or a 5' step, and whether a 5' step or movement can be done in the next action. Let's create adjudication nightmares, just because we can. :uhoh:

Defensive Sweep: Opponent must move or you get an Attack of Opportunity. A free AoO when the opponent does nothing to encourage it is potent. Granted, your opponent can deny this feat to you if he knows about it (or moves), but this encourages (typically DM) metagaming. Feats that encourage metagaming should not be in the game. If the DM has an opponent move a lot, the player might get the impression that the DM is purposely doing that to avoid the feat and might feel cheated. Nor, should the DM feel compelled to keep the opponent in the same square, just to give the use of this feat to the player. Potent and metagaming encouraging: bogus all the way around.

Elven Spell Lore: +2 caster level on Dispel Magic / Greater Dispel Magic plus can alter a specific spell to any energy type. One problem with this one is that it does not prevent Sonic energy. Secondly, it appears to be a feat designed to just throw unrelated stuff into a feat, just to get another feat in the book. And finally, +2 caster level on Dispels is potent enough for a feat. They just appear to be making feats bigger and badder all of the time. Totally bogus.

Fiery Ki Defense: Again, another annoying, but not broken, feat. If you suddenly appear wreathed in flames, why would anyone attack you? The DM has to either pretend his opponents are totally stupid (metagaming), or he has to have them attack someone else in which case, the only real use for the feat is to be protected from attacks for a single round. This is just a stupid feat IMO. Another "just to have a feat in the book" feat.

Hindering Opportunist: Replace AoO with an Aid Another action. Why would any character take this feat? If you are a decent combatant type, then the feat is pretty worthless since you are better off taking the AoO (since you have Combat Reflexes anyway) than giving +2 to hit or AC to an ally who might not even fight this opponent. If you are not a decent combatant type, then you shouldn't often be in combat and there are many better feats to take then this. All in all, a worthless feat not worth the paper it is written on. Another "just to have a feat in the book" feat. The only reason to take this feat at all is in order to acquire the Stalwart Defense feat. But the Hindering Opportunist feat itself is basically worthless.

Indomitable Soul: Roll two Will saves against Mind Affecting or Fear effects, take the higher of the two rolls. Talk about broken. First, unlike other "second chance" effects in the game, you are not stuck with your second roll. Second, you get to do it every time against Mind Effects, not just a set number per day. This is a massive defense against the entire Enchantment School of Magic, plus some other effects in the game.

Keen Eared Scout: Gain additional information with a Listen check. Doesn't this already happen in the game? Doesn't the DM already supply additional information if a PC rolls great on a Listen roll? I don't know of a DM who doesn't flesh in information and just says "You hear something moving" on a great Listen roll. Another "just to have a feat in the book" feat. This could just have easily been an add on to the Listen skill, just like they added on to many other skills in other Complete books.

Leap of the Heavens: No double DC for non-running jumps, +5 to Jump skill for running jump. Huh? Skill Focus only gives +3 to the skill. +5??? And, lowering the DC to that of a running jump? Totally broken. This is basically a +5 to +30 (or more) bonus for any decent lengthed jump, depending.

Mad Foam Rager: You can delay an attack or spell or ability effect for a round+ if raging. Theoretically, you could run through a Wall of Force. Or, you can prevent an Antimagic Field from affecting you (and presumably your equipment and spells) for a round. I do not think this is the intent of the feat, but either a spell effect affects you, or it does not. If the feat is read that it is only spells, attacks, and abilites effects specifically targeted against you, it still is problematic. How do you prevent a Disintegrate spell from actually disintegrating you? I do not like the concept of supernatural abilities as feats. This feat also can be used to prevent death or effects because the Cleric can cast a Cure or Heal spell before the damaging effect takes place. For example, the wounded Barbarian gets hit with a Power Word Kill, fails his save, and delays it. The Cleric heals the Barbarian. The Power Word Kill is totally negated. Or, the Barbarian gets hit with a Disintegrate, fails the save, and delays it. The Wizard making his Spellcraft roll, casts Antimagic Field and walks up to the Barbarian. The Disintegrate then does not work. Next round, the Wizard dismisses his AMF. I find this to be too potent and supernatual for a feat.

Melee Weapon Mastery: Get +2 to hit and +2 damage to all melee weapons of a given damage type. This single feat is more potent than Weapon Focus combined with Weapon Specialization or Greater Weapon Focus combined with Greater Weapon Specialization. And, it stacks with them for a total of +4 to hit, +6 damage. When one feat is more potent than two core feats combined, it is too potent. It can also be used by a character who only takes 4 levels of Fighter (and then gets out of the Fighter class) to gain more than Greater Weapon Focus combined with Greater Weapon Specialization at an earlier level.

Overwhelming Assault: If opponent is adjacent to you on round one, does not attack you, and is still adjacent to you on round two, you get to attack him at +4 on round two. This has similar problems to Acrobatic Strike with regard to +4 and similar problems to Defensive Sweep with regard to metagaming.

Ranged Weapon Mastery: Get +2 to hit and +2 damage and 20 feet added to range increment to all ranged weapons of a given damage type. This single feat is more potent than Weapon Focus combined with Weapon Specialization or Greater Weapon Focus combined with Greater Weapon Specialization. And, it stacks with them for a total of +4 to hit, +6 damage. When one feat is more potent than two core feats combined, it is too potent. It can also be used by a character who only takes 4 levels of Fighter (and then gets out of the Fighter class) to gain more than Greater Weapon Focus combined with Greater Weapon Specialization at an earlier level.

Shield Ward: Add Shield AC to touch AC and on checks to resist bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, and trip. This is really potent. Most of the special attacks (including spell and psionic touch attacks) are given a significant bonus which can range as high as +8 (it uses Shield Specialization as a prereq). For example, Improved Trip gives +4. At high level, this can give +8. So, this one feat negates and even overwhelms most of the advantages of the feats Improved Bullrush, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Overrun, and Improved Trip plus giving an extra defense against touch attacks of all sorts. This is more potent than a +5 magic item.

Telling Blow: You gain your Sneak Attack or Skirmish damage on a critical hit. In and of itself, this is not overly bad. It just gets real bad when combined with other abilities which increase the threat range of a weapon. For example, a Keen Rapier crits on a 15 or higher, so with the proper other magic/feats, the D6 damage of the Rapier itself is irrelevant when the 7th level Rogue is doing 5D6 + magic + Strength on a normal flank and 10D6 + 2 * magic + 2 * Strength on a critical flank. Except combatant types, many same 7th level creatures cannot survive one 10D6 + 2 * magic + 2 * Strength attack. And as the Rogue or Scout goes up levels, his damage increases as well and he can combine this with full round attacks and other feats/special abilities.

Vexing Flanker: You gain +4 to hits on Flank instead of +2. At first glance, this does not seem that potent when you consider that it is only +2 more and Weapon Focus gives +1 to all attacks for a specific weapon. However, flanking is something that comes up a lot in games and flanking allows Sneak Attacks. For a Rogue, this feat would be useful at least 50% of the time in combat and often a higher percentage than that. A +1 bonus would have been sufficient for a feat, especially considering that it is already an advantageous situation and it can be used with any weapon, including ranged weapons. Feats that allow Rogues to have to hits in the range of Fighter's to hits and they get to add Sneak Attack damage on top of that are really potent in game.

Water Splitting Stone: You gain +4 to damage against creatures who have effective DR against you. What this effectively does is minimize DR for all opponents. It does not completely negate it, but it means that Monks can fight better against most DR opponents than many Fighters can. And, it is an anti-Barbarian feat since you will do more damage to a 15th or lower level Barbarian with it than against a normal 15th or lower level Fighter. Feats that allow you to do more damage against an opponent who has a specialized form of defense than if they did not have the defense at all do not make sense to me. Not overly potent, but another "just to have a feat in the book" feat.

Weapon Supremacy: +4 versus Disarm, can use normal weapon in Grapple, can add +5 to an attack after first in full round attack, can Take 10 on a single attack roll per round, +1 bonus to AC. What is up with this feat? I realize that Fighters have a hard time getting good high level feats, but this is probably the ultimate in Jack of All Trades Fighter feats. None of this stuff is related. It is anti-Disarm, anti-Grapple, can typically guarantee a hit (no chance of rolling a one) which when combined with special attacks (such as Psionic Weapon), can make sure they are successful and it throws in a benefit more potent than the Dodge feat. When combined with Power Attack, it allows a Fighter to quickly figure out max damage for the Take 10 attack (e.g. if a 7 hit last round on a normal attack, then the Fighter is guaranteed a hit with a Take 10 +3 Power Attack unless the opponent changes his defensive stance). This just seems like a not well thought out Super Potent feat for Fighters. I understand that it is at the end of a 5 feat chain, but I also understand that many true Fighters will automatically take 4 out of 5 of those feats by 12th level and the Weapon Master feat is one I listed above as already too potent.


The concept of introducing feats that are more useful and potent than core rules feats is a bad idea.


I won't even bother to go into the rest of the non-general feats. Needless to say, the "Bigger, Badder, Better" and the "Let's put any stupid idea we can think of down" syndromes have hit big time with regard to feats in the release of PHB II. JMO. YMMV. :lol:
 

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Wow. Aside from Keen-Eared Scout, I consider every one of those a brilliant, if not near-necessary, addition to the game.

Congrats! You just pushed me over the top to buy PHB2, and I don't normally buy WotC books until required to do so. :)
 

In all fairness, most of these feats are high level, high prerequisite feats. Several are specifically for high-level fighters only. I love 'em, on the whole.
 

the Jester said:
In all fairness, most of these feats are high level, high prerequisite feats. Several are specifically for high-level fighters only. I love 'em, on the whole.

Exactly. You can't examine feats in a vaccuum. It's important to keep in mind prereqs and requirements. A lot of the feats, for instance, are only available at fairly high levels, and serve (for instance) to bring fighters back into relative balance with the high-level spellcasting classes.
 


Crossbow Sniper just makes crossbows suck less. Mighty Composite Bows already add *full* str to damage without blowing a feat, so adding half Dex to damage? *yawn*.

And Water Splitting Stone just makes monks suck less. I mean, otherwise their puny fists do jack vs. something that is high DR/evil or silver or cold iron or good. I mean, did I miss the meeting where someone thought monks were not severely underpowered? My only objection is that his should be a class feature of monks.

That said, I agree that Keen-Eared Scout is silly, since I also have DMs that simply give more info on high listen checks already. That said, one could consider using that table for everyone, as if everyone had that feat as a bonus feat, if they wanted to codify what "high listen roll" meant.
 
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Crossbow Sniper is broke? A level 20 ranger gets how many attacks with a longbow? Loading a Heavy Crossbow is a full round action that provokes and even a Lt. Crossbow takes your move action for the round and still provokes, so you'd never get more than 1 attack (without dedicating more feats).

compare:
level 20 ranger with a mundane bow built for STR (+4 STR) attacking 4x per round for 1d8+4 damage

same 20 ranger spends a FEAT --Crossbow Sniper-- to use a crossbow (26 DEX) attacking 1x per round for 1d10+4

I don't know about you but I'll take my 4 attacks per round at 1d8+4. I kept this comparison as simple as possible, but clearly the longbow can get much, much more broken with rapid shot, multishot, shot on the run, etc. that a Heavy Crossbow can never accomplish (without adding even more feats).

If you count the exotic crossbows, well that's just adding even more feats into the mix.

I guess a rogue with Crossbow Sniper and using a Hand Crossbow (still a move action to reload without rapid reload) while using Rapid Reload could crank out some decent damage, but he could have done the same with a regular bow and fewer feats.

I understand what you are saying about Shield Ward and agree up to a point... but I really hate some of those feats you just mentioned so you've convinced me to take this feat on every toon I build, LOL.

Seriously though, Improved Trip and Improved Grapple are 2 of the most guilty culprits when it comes to broken feats, so I'd stear clear of using them to argue a point, hehe. Any feat that helps my wizard from being perma-pinned by a stupid monk owns in my book. Improved Grappling level one monks flurry to ensure that they succeed on the touch attack, don't provoke, get +4 to the opposed check, still deal damage on the round they establish the grapple and from then on the caster CANNOT cast? Then the caster wastes a full round of great d20 rolls to finally break out, only to be grappled again on the monk's next turn? I'll take two of any feat that helps me avoid this, thanks. :p
 
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The problem with Crossbow Sniper is not really the extra damage. It is the extra range for Sneak Attacks.

A third level Rogue can take it.
 

KarinsDad said:
The problem with Crossbow Sniper is not really the extra damage. It is the extra range for Sneak Attacks.

A third level Rogue can take it.

If it makes it so someoneone...anyone starts to use a crossbow over a bow then this is a very good thing.
 

Crossbow Sniper - the half-dex to damage is nice, but hardly broken. Doesn't it only apply to creatures subject to critical hits??

IIRC, the feat also allows a rogue etc to extend their precision damage range from 30ft to 60ft with this one weapon? If this is the case, I think that a number of rogues would take the feat - particularly those with Darkvision who could get the drop on someone from 60ft. Maybe this isn't such a great thing for most games, but we play the optional rule of a standard action only in the 1st round of combat, so a rogue is often caught outside the 30ft zone for sneak attack, and withouth a way to close the distance AND attack. It also helps keep the rogue out of danger for when they do get the opportunity.

Melee/Ranged Combat Mastery - I'd have preferred this to be a Ftr14 feat (just after Greater Weapon Specialisation) otherwise it becomes a no-brainer at 8th level (far superior to Greater Weapon Focus or Improved Critical, which become available at that level).

Otherwise, KarinsDad, I think that you also need to consider the opportunity cost for a lot of these feats - there are a lot of good feats out there, and it becomes a game of which one do I want the most? Many of the new feats are desirable, but are they (except Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery masybe) any more desirable than other available feats?
 

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