Level Up (A5E) Feats at Level 1

[WanderingMystic]

This is an odd take to me; I don't really feel like feats in general were toned down as a system, though a few of them did get a nerf. In fact, if anything, I think especially once you start getting into synergy feats, they can get really potent.

I feel like the need for a feat especially at first level was toned down if not the over all power of them. In o5E my group always gave a free feat just so your character had a bit more flavor and distention to them. Now in level up its not needed because of how many options you get even at fist level. Also with magical items that increase your stats and expertise dice I don't know if you have to rush to get your main stay up to a 20 anymore giving you more time to take feats.

I do think the level requirements for the multiclassing feats are a little high and should be 3in one class and 1 in the other so you can get your fist by level 5 instead of waiting until level 7.

 

[Timespike]

I feel like the need for a feat especially at first level was toned down if not the over all power of them. In o5E my group always gave a free feat just so your character had a bit more flavor and distention to them. Now in level up its not needed because of how many options you get even at fist level. Also with magical items that increase your stats and expertise dice I don't know if you have to rush to get your main stay up to a 20 anymore giving you more time to take feats.

I do think the level requirements for the multiclassing feats are a little high and should be 3in one class and 1 in the other so you can get your fist by level 5 instead of waiting until level 7.

You can blame me, personally, for that one. My Multiclass Feats article for En5ider (and to a far lesser extent, my standalone O5E product by the same name) was where that requirement came from, even though I wasn't the one who wrote the synergy feat chains. I did that for two reasons:

• The first was that I wanted to discourage dipping. By the time you're three levels into a class, you're somewhat committed, and you've also meaningfully delayed your progress in any others you've got levels in. Admittedly that's a less-severe problem in A5E than O5E.
• The second was that in terms of a character's identity, three levels is the point where all of the classes have their subclass. So you'll have a really solid picture of who this character is at that point. And the difference can be pronounced. To use the example of a Proclaimer from the AG - an Inquisitor/Mountebank is a VERY different character from a Green Knight/Warchanter, even if the number of class levels is the same.

TL;DR: I wanted the feats to be available early enough to matter, but late enough that the character actually had a solid concept that incorporated both sides of their multiclass mix, rather than being a 3.5e-eque cherry picking of frontloaded abilities.

Edit: there's one more consideration there, too: by the time you have three levels in a class, there are more mechanical "hooks" available to link the classes to each other with a feat. So that's also a consideration. And you don't want a feat to be able to either substitute for whole levels of class advancement or not do anything when you get it because you need more levels in something for it to "come online."

 

[WanderingMystic]

You can blame me, personally, for that one. My Multiclass Feats article for En5ider (and to a far lesser extent, my standalone O5E product by the same name) was where that requirement came from, even though I wasn't the one who wrote the synergy feat chains. I did that for two reasons:

• The first was that I wanted to discourage dipping. By the time you're three levels into a class, you're somewhat committed, and you've also meaningfully delayed your progress in any others you've got levels in. Admittedly that's a less-severe problem in A5E than O5E.
• The second was that in terms of a character's identity, three levels is the point where all of the classes have their subclass. So you'll have a really solid picture of who this character is at that point. And the difference can be pronounced. To use the example of a Proclaimer from the AG - an Inquisitor/Mountebank is a VERY different character from a Green Knight/Warchanter, even if the number of class levels is the same.

TL;DR: I wanted the feats to be available early enough to matter, but late enough that the character actually had a solid concept that incorporated both sides of their multiclass mix, rather than being a 3.5e-eque cherry picking of frontloaded abilities.

Edit: there's one more consideration there, too: by the time you have three levels in a class, there are more mechanical "hooks" available to link the classes to each other with a feat. So that's also a consideration. And you don't want a feat to be able to either substitute for whole levels of class advancement or not do anything when you get it because you need more levels in something for it to "come online."

Your reasons are sound. I guess in my mind I want my characters identity to come online around lvl 5-6. If I want a character who uses these feats (which are amazing) the earliest I would feel like my character would be around lvl 8-9. if I wanted an arcane archer style then I would go fighter 3, wizard 1 then go back and puck up 2 more levels of fighter before taking more levels in wizard. This way I have magic arrows and 2 shots per round by level 6. The fact that I cant evwn get magical arrows until lvl 7 is just a bit late for me.

 

[Timespike]

In that particular case, I'd probably wait even longer; I'd start with a Fighter, take the Sharphooter Archetype, pick up some good Biting Zephyr maneuvers, take the first ASI as a boost to my Dexterity or Intelligence, get that second attack and then pivot to Wizard for 4 levels, go back to fighter for 3 more, and make a judgment call about the rest of the character's build from there. But it's very much down to personal style.

 

[Praeden]

TL;DR: I wanted the feats to be available early enough to matter, but late enough that the character actually had a solid concept that incorporated both sides of their multiclass mix, rather than being a 3.5e-eque cherry picking of frontloaded abilities.

I think that is something that has been generally well handled in A5e, and not just with the multi-classing feats. Looking at old multiclassed characters from 3.5e and 5e, my A5e conversions actually use fewer classes. I think that is down to 2 reasons.
1. A lot of my multi-classing happens organically, as a result of events in the campaign, and A5e classes seem flexible enough to accommodate changes in direction without resorting to multi-classing by default.
2. A5e classes generally have a stronger flavour, and multi-classing in and out out them sometimes feels a bit weird.