Feature or Bug: D&D's Power and Complexity Curve

[TwoSix]

All the fear and tension that was part of the world is now gone. Was it a lie all along?

When I was 6, I was pretty scared of Chuck E. Cheese, because of the animatronic dancing animals and flashing lights. Now that I'm 40, I'm not scared of Chuck E. Cheese anymore, and I feel like that makes a lot of sense. (Chuck E. Cheese still sucks, but for totally different reasons.)

 

[Guest 6801328]

Now that I'm 40, I'm not scared of Chuck E. Cheese anymore

All the more fool you. He's evil.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Dausuul]

But even from 1st through 6th the game changes dramatically based on the capabilities of the PCs.

Sure, but the point of E6 was that you would reach 6th level fairly early and then stay there for the rest of the campaign. Feats provided incremental power gains and a sense of progress, but the power level was close to flat.

If I were still playing 3E, I would almost certainly have switched to E6 by now. 5E's power curve is manageable enough that I haven't felt the need to try something like that. (It was never an immersion issue for me, it was just the headache of creating meaningful and interesting challenges for high-level PCs... not to mention getting through more than 1 round of combat per half hour.)

 

[Guest 6801328]

Immersion is a mug's game.

What you should be looking for is the suspension of disbelief. And either it works for you, or it doesn't.

Look, you can obsess over just about anything, because ... the campaign world isn't real. Why, for example, don't the maps have bathrooms indicated? Where do the villagers use the bathroom? Where do the PCs use the bathroom????

See what I mean? It's like when you there's a word you use all the time, and then you stare at it until it doesn't make sense anymore to you.

The reason D&D uses a level-advancement system (zero-to-hero) should be obvious, and it's the same reason that D&D is successful as a TTRPG; because players like a feeling of accomplishment. Not just narrative accomplishment, but a feeling of progress! Not all do, and not all to the same extent, but that's part of what makes it a game.

In terms of your own suspension of disbelief, I would recommend not thinking about it too deeply.

I would say that suspension of disbelief is mostly a matter of the player's willingness to suspend it. The GM's (and to some extent the other players') storytelling ability can increase that willingness, but it's still up to the player.

Rules have nothing to do with it.

 

[innerdude]

To answer the OP, forty-five years of this particular element (level-based progression and its resulting complexities) remaining in place seems to point pretty strongly that regardless of what anyone else thinks, the game creators see it as a feature, and a strong one at that.

As others have said, it's a thoroughly enmeshed, part-and-parcel component of the Dungeons & Dragons experience. If this is something that isn't to someone's taste, that individual is clearly better off playing an RPG that is not Dungeons & Dragons nor any of its antecedents.

Which is exactly the decision I made a decade ago when I realized that I no longer enjoyed the D&D/d20 progression framework of class/level + escalating hitpoints.

As soon as I realized that Savage Worlds was better at giving me the kinds of game experiences I'd always wanted than D&D had ever been, I never looked back. I often tell people that Savage Worlds is the version of BECMI they'd always wished they'd had, but now can actually play.

 

[Reynard]

When I was 6, I was pretty scared of Chuck E. Cheese, because of the animatronic dancing animals and flashing lights. Now that I'm 40, I'm not scared of Chuck E. Cheese anymore, and I feel like that makes a lot of sense. (Chuck E. Cheese still sucks, but for totally different reasons.)

Exactly right. The point is it took you a long time and a lot of growing to make that transition, not a couple days.

Obviously I am in the minority on this, which is fine. If nothing else this thread helped me articulate to myself what my objections are.

So thanks everyone!

 

[TwoSix]

Exactly right. The point is it took you a long time and a lot of growing to make that transition, not a couple days.

Obviously I am in the minority on this, which is fine. If nothing else this thread helped me articulate to myself what my objections are.

So thanks everyone!

Now if you wanted to make the point that leveling is too quick in terms of in-game time, I think you'd get a bit more agreement.

 

[Reynard]

Now if you wanted to make the point that leveling is too quick in terms of in-game time, I think you'd get a bit more agreement.

I thought I did.

 

[CleverNickName]

It's not a problem I've had in my games, but it's an interesting way to look at the game.

In your Peter Jackson's LotR example, Gandalf probably only gained one level throughout the entire story (and even then, only after taking out a friggin' balrog and nearly dying in the process). It was a little different for Sam: he never gained any levels at all, from what we can tell from the story...he started out as Frodo's gardener, and he was always Frodo's gardener...albeit he was a gardener with The Light of Eärendil, a magical Elven Cloak to hide him from unfriendly eyes, and a magical sword named Sting. Frodo's path was the inverse of typical D&D progression: he left the Shire as a brave hero with a world-ending artifact in his care...but toward the end he was so powerless he couldn't even walk.

It's a very interesting way of looking at D&D, for sure. I mean, what is a hero really made of?

It wouldn't be difficult to remove leveling altogether and still have both an enjoyable game AND story. Experience points are just one way to add power to a character gradually over time, or as a reward for completing missions. You could go the Samwise route, and just award magic items at key points in the story, items that will be pivotal to their success. You could do something like Frodo, where the party starts out powerful and gets gradually weaker (pretty good motivator, if you ask me).

So many ideas...must go write some of this down...