Feeblemind and Spell-like abilities

[Jairami]

I agree. Spells are not spell-like abilities nor vice versa.

However, I do think an intelligence of greater than 1 is required to use any spell or spell-like ability. It doesn't say that anywhere, of course, it doesn't say the opposite anywhere. There's a big hole in that area that is as clear as mud depending on personal opinion.

Course, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Just clarifyin' my opinion..

 

[hong]

Saying that an interpretation of the spell's effects that disables SLAs is directly contradictory is, as I said before, a bit extreme and reflects a highly mechanistic perspective on the rules.

Of course it's a mechanistic perspective on the rules. This is the friggin' RULES FORUM.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I agree. Spells are not spell-like abilities nor vice versa.

Actually, spells ARE spell-like abilities, but NOT vice versa.

However, I do think an intelligence of greater than 1 is required to use any spell or spell-like ability. It doesn't say that anywhere, of course, it doesn't say the opposite anywhere.

As a counter example, Astral Constructs have no Int score, and can have spell-like abilities, so it is clear that intelligence is not required.

Geoff.

 

[AGGEMAM]

The following character powers are listed as spell like abilities:
Wild Shape (Druid)
Abundant Step (Monk)
Detect Evil (Paladin)
Remove Disease (Paladin)


Now this does open up a whole new can of worms, since that means that Feeblemind gives the -4 penalty to any one with these class features. Still, it is not correct to say that players never get spell like abilities.

Feeblemind says 'arcane spell-like abilities', I don't see how any of those Sp's except perhaps Abundant Step could be viewed as 'arcane'.

 

[Voadam]

core issues here

The core issue seems to be are spell like abilities subject to effects that only affect spells. Feeblemind in the PH says it affects spells and does not mention SLAs.

Magus seems to be arguing that SLAs are a type of spells.

The quote from the MM seems to state fairly clearly that this is not so

""Spell-Like: Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (although they are not spells, and so have no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance." [MM p.7]

The key part being "they are not spells."

Even though a ranger has a favored enemy of magical beasts this gives no special benefits when he faces a beast, they are not the same thing and the types are distinct. From a rules perspective the distinctions between types matter.

It seems similar here. Feeblemind prevents the casting of spells. SLAs though similar to spells, are not spells. Therefore I read Feeblemind as not directly affecting SLA ability use.

Now as for the 1 intelligence prohibiting it, the psionic constructs are a good example of a 0 intelligence creature that uses SLAs. If a 0 intelligence creature can use SLAs it makes sense that a 1 intelliegence creature can.

If you don't have the Psihb you can still see the astral constructs in the SRD.

 

[smetzger]

With SLA's the differences are what the monster does to generate the ability - and because of that V-S-M-F-XP component and "human-like hands rules" are suspended. It is because the generation differs that you cannot counterspell an SLA, or be counterspelled with one. Counterspelling is also NOT disruption of casting.

I don't see why you cannot counter a spell-like ability. It may be difficult to identify the spell-like ability that the creature is using, but that doesn't mean that you cannot counter the effect. A Still, Silent Spell with no material component has a DC of +4 (see Tome & Blood p. 19); thats not much different from a Spell-like ability.

 

[Voadam]

From the SRD

"Counterspells

It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, the character is using the spell's energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.

How Counterspells Work: To use a counterspell, the character must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. the character does this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, the character elects to wait to complete his or her action until the character's opponent tries to cast a spell. (The character may still move at
normal speed, since ready is a standard action.)

If the target of the character's counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, the character correctly identifies the opponent's spell and can attempt to counter it. (If the check fails, the character can't do either of these things.)"


Counterspells only work against spells. SLAs, although similar to spells in many ways, are not themselves spells.

 

[smetzger]

I guess it does specifically say spell.

Since the Counterspell rules were directly taken from a rec.games.frp.dnd post that I made; I will say that in my opinion as the original author; counterspell should work against spell-like abilities.

 

[hong]

I guess it does specifically say spell.

Since the Counterspell rules were directly taken from a rec.games.frp.dnd post that I made; I will say that in my opinion as the original author; counterspell should work against spell-like abilities.

A bit late now.

(I don't remember you from rgfd, BTW. Do you post under a nick? Is your stuff on Google?)

 

[gfunk]

To those of you who think . . . er . . . *KNOW* that SLAs are not shutdown by Feeblemind, a quick question:

How would you, as a DM, rule that a Feeblemind affects creatures with SLAs?

This was hinted at by a few people, but I don't recall anyone going into detail. Consider the fact that there is no creature (that I'm aware of) with a 1 Int and spell-like abilities. The problem here is mainly a subjective one and I'm sure different DMs will rule that creatures still have access to some SLAs.