feint

[Hellefire]

A feint works for your next melee attack. Does that include a full round attack, or jsut the first attack of the full round attack?

Aaron

 

[irdeggman]

Melee atttack is under "Standard Action" in the list of actions.

So it is the "melee attack" and not the "Full Attack" which is listed under Full-round actions and includes more than a single attack (whether melee or ranged).

 

[Li Shenron]

First one only.

 

[Infiniti2000]

A feint works for your next melee attack. Does that include a full round attack, or just the first attack of the full round attack?

The definition:

melee attack
A physical attack suitable for close combat.

There's no such caveat that it's a standard action or a full round action, but it's clearly singular, thus one attack. Since the same wording is used in an AoO, you could use the benefit from a feint in an AoO against the target if, say, he moved away.

 

[irdeggman]

There's no such caveat that it's a standard action or a full round action, but it's clearly singular, thus one attack. Since the same wording is used in an AoO, you could use the benefit from a feint in an AoO against the target if, say, he moved away.

How about this one?

From the SRD

STANDARD ACTIONS
Attack
Making an attack is a standard action.

Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.) Some melee weapons have reach, as indicated in their descriptions. With a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can’t strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet).

See PHB pg 139

and table 8-2

Attack (melee) is listed as a standard action

 

[Infiniti2000]

Attack (melee) is listed as a standard action

Sure, but it's not ALWAYS a standard action. It's also a full round action and not an action at all (AoO). Which one was used by the rules on Feint? Well, not given further description, I'd use the Glossary, not choose one at random.

 

[irdeggman]

Sure, but it's not ALWAYS a standard action. It's also a full round action and not an action at all (AoO). Which one was used by the rules on Feint? Well, not given further description, I'd use the Glossary, not choose one at random.

Melee attack is listed specifically as a standard action (in the text as well - see other reference, not just one).

Full attack and AoO are "special" things.

But since the text under feinting in combat states:

If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

It pretty clearly is referring to what you are talking about.

But, a full attack is not a melee attack - it is its own type of action.

An AoO allows you to make a single melee attack when it is not your turn and a full attack allows you to make multiple melee attacks.

Basically a melee attack is a standard action, but these two allow actions (AoO and full attack, also haste will grant an extra melee attack as well) "extra" melee attacks.

Feint only applies to your next melee attack.

 

[Infiniti2000]

So, irdeggman, it's your contention that when the rules use "melee attack" they always refer to the standard action "attack (melee)"?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm not sure where irdeggman is coming from on this one.

It's your next melee attack against that target, regardless of how you get that melee attack. If you take the full attack action, the "bonus" only applies to your first attack.

 

[irdeggman]

So, irdeggman, it's your contention that when the rules use "melee attack" they always refer to the standard action "attack (melee)"?

Melee attack is a standard action by definition (in the text on actions).

All other cases where you would be making a melee attack are "special" cases where it says you can make extra ones or ones that are outside your turn.

That is the "technical/RAW" answer.

The "practical" answer is basically the same as yours. Sometimes things are just "simplified" to make them easier to talk about.

So you can make a melee attack that is not a "standard" action when using one of the "special" cases, but if you aren't then you can't.

I really think we are stating the same thing only coming about to it via different paths.