Felldrakes, did Bahamut get even with Tiamat over the draconians?

[frankthedm]

In the Dragonlance world, Tiamat/Thakisis corrupted the captured eggs of good dragons into the Draconians[bipedal dragon men, some with traits of the metalic dragons they should have been].

In the chaimail game's story, Bahamut gave the elves dragon blooded combat allies known as fell drakes, who just happen to have Chromatic dragon features.

Has it even been stated these critters are altered evil dragons, or is the art just hinting at this?

 

[Lord Morte]

The front one looks more like a modified copper dragon, but you've got a point. I don't think its mentioned anywhere though. Dragonlance's creative team is completely distinct from that of regular D&D these days anyway.

Would be an interesting idea though.

 

[Alzrius]

I feel a need to point out here that the premise of this idea, that Bahamut was getting even with Tiamat over the creation of the draconians, is inherently flawed.

Tiamat had nothing to do with the draconians. The fact is, while Tiamat and Takhisis were similar in scope and form, they were distinct, different deities. They had different realms on Baator, and neither of them had access to any of the same areas of the Prime Material Plane. They are each distinct and unrelated, and always have been (check out Douglas Niles's comments on the annotated Legends trilogy for Dragonlance). Likewise, Bahamut and Paladine are distinct, separate deities. The idea that these similar deities are separate from each other should be driven home by the end of the War of Souls trilogy.

In any event, it's unlikely that Paladine would have needed to "get even" for the creation of the draconians anyway. Bestiary of Krynn revealed the Noble Draconians (IIRC that's the right name); good draconians unwittingly created by Takhisis's servants. Paladine didn't need to make a corresponding race, since the bad guys had done it for him.

For those interested, stats for the Crested, Horned, and Spitting Felldrakes can be found in the Monster Manual II. Stats for the Spiked Felldrake are in Draconomicon. From what I can see, there is nothing about felldrakes that has anything related to chromatic dragons.

 

[Trickstergod]

I feel a need to point out here that the premise of this idea, that Bahamut was getting even with Tiamat over the creation of the draconians, is inherently flawed.

Tiamat had nothing to do with the draconians. The fact is, while Tiamat and Takhisis were similar in scope and form, they were distinct, different deities.

Dragonlance really wasn't written with other planes and the like in mind. A glance at the various names for both Paladine and Takhisis will reveal amongst them variations off of the names Bahamut and Tiamat.

Similarly, looking into some of the comments here that Jeff Grubb's said makes it pretty clear that Paladine and Takhisis were meant to be Bahamut and Tiamat. Same thing with Chemosh being Orcus.

Later books have gone on to say otherwise, but it still stands: initially, the two pairs were, in essence, one and the same.

 

[Gez]

Bestiary of Krynn revealed the Noble Draconians (IIRC that's the right name); good draconians unwittingly created by Takhisis's servants. Paladine didn't need to make a corresponding race, since the bad guys had done it for him.

Yup. Since the "draconian ritual" creates many evil draconians out of a single good dragon egg, after having run good dragons into near extinction, the bad guys thought to use eggs from evil dragons. Good dragon eggs were a bit too hard to find.

And so, the same symetry produced many good draconians out of a single evil dragon egg.

 

[Alzrius]

Dragonlance really wasn't written with other planes and the like in mind. A glance at the various names for both Paladine and Takhisis will reveal amongst them variations off of the names Bahamut and Tiamat.

Similarly, looking into some of the comments here that Jeff Grubb's said makes it pretty clear that Paladine and Takhisis were meant to be Bahamut and Tiamat. Same thing with Chemosh being Orcus.

Later books have gone on to say otherwise, but it still stands: initially, the two pairs were, in essence, one and the same.

Maybe (and I say maybe because Douglas Niles in the above-mentioned annotation pretty much says out-and-out that the two were never meant to be the same), but it's always been understood that what comes later redefines what came before. Every campaign has that, and this is the perfect example of it in DL. The final word came down over and over again, that Tiamat is not Takhisis, Bahamut is not Paladine, etc.

 

[Klaus]

I an old homebrew, I renamed the DL deities to BE Bahamut and Tiamat, and Tiamat's minions created the draconians from metallic eggs, as usual. After the War ended and the draconians seemed extinct, a new breed surfaced: evil, chromatic draconians, created from chromatic eggs by the minions of Faluzure, the Twilight Dragon (lord of shadow dragons and rival of both Bahamut and Tiamat).

 

[reanjr]

Similarly, looking into some of the comments here that Jeff Grubb's said makes it pretty clear that Paladine and Takhisis were meant to be Bahamut and Tiamat. Same thing with Chemosh being Orcus.

That may be, but the Dragonlance gods were originally designed to be the Forgotten Realms gods, so I think it's a moot point.

 

[Trickstergod]

... but it's always been understood that what comes later redefines what came before. Every campaign has that, and this is the perfect example of it in DL. The final word came down over and over again, that Tiamat is not Takhisis, Bahamut is not Paladine, etc.

Generally, I go with the more sensible one. Considering the vast number of parallels between Bahamut and Paladine, Tiamat and Takhisis, I go with their being one in the same. Something which there is some support for.

Two different platinum dragon gods and two different five headed chromatic dragon goddesses, completely separate from one another, is just silly.

Now, different aspects of the same god? Fully fine by me. Heck, Dragonlance already did that by offering up the regional variations different folk had for their pantheon.

As for Douglas Niles comments, it seems more fueled by the fact that the intention was that what Paladine did in Dragonlance wouldn't be in anyway influenced by what Bahamut did elsewhere, and that Paladine could exist independently in the authors hands without bothering with the continuity to some other campaign setting.

For the most part, Dragonlance seemed intent on escaping a number of D&D'isms, at least at first. Among them silly ideas such as a multiverse and what not.

 

[jonesy]

That may be, but the Dragonlance gods were originally designed to be the Forgotten Realms gods, so I think it's a moot point.

Just to nitpick, but they were modelled after the Greyhawk gods and meant to be altogether separate gods (which is what Jeff Grubb said).