D&D 5E Fey Hobgoblins, where did they come from? What are they for?

[Lyxen]

It wasn't that the Realms "stole" the non-human deities, it was that they were the expected default for every D&D world in 1e and 2e that didn't specify otherwise.The setting-agnostic 2e

Of course, they stole it, rather than implementing their own pantheon, and it's also the fact that Maglubiyet, a Greater God, was placed a subservient to Bane as an exarch. As long as they created a kind a demigod to the (boring) Bane, they could have had the good grace to find a new name for something that had little to do with the original...

 

[JEB]

The Fortune of the Many ability in the UA is mechanically identical to the the Saving Face ability of the Volo hobgoblin. It's just renamed to avoid the orientalism.

Huh. Good catch. Fey Ancestry could also be replacing Martial Training, which is a type of trait we're not likely to see for races anymore. Fey Gift is completely additional, though, and the two Fey traits taken together convey something with a pretty different lore feel from the core-rules hobgoblin. So variant, rather than wholesale replacement as the new default, still seems more likely at this point. Now, when 2024 5E comes along, that may be a different story...

 

[Weiley31]

It's funny, the UA fey hobgoblin is so divorced in style and abilities from the existing hobgoblin race, the thought crossed my mind that it's not actually a test for a hobgoblin race at all. That calling it a fey hobgoblin was a misdirection.

To be clear-- I don't think that's likely. There's lots of other reasons to create a different hobgoblin.

But it would be kind of funny.

AD

I still say that its better to call it a Boggart. Because the Lawful Evil Klingon Hobgoblins of standard dnd is most certainly the opposite of the UA fey version in that regards.

 

[lkj]

Actually, it isn't. The Fortune of the Many ability in the UA is mechanically identical to the the Saving Face ability of the Volo hobgoblin. It's just renamed to avoid the orientalism.

This is just an attempt to revert the hobgoblin to what it was in folklore, before twee-haters like Tolkien and Gygax started messing with them.


-OED

Hey. You with all your reading comprehension and whatnot. Ruining my fun.

AD

 

[Demetrios1453]

Of course, they stole it, rather than implementing their own pantheon, and it's also the fact that Maglubiyet, a Greater God, was placed a subservient to Bane as an exarch. As long as they created a kind a demigod to the (boring) Bane, they could have had the good grace to find a new name for something that had little to do with the original...

That was only in 4e. And we'll all quietly draw a curtain to hide everything done then. From 1e through 3e and in 5e in the Realms, he's been his own thing.

And again, it wasn't stolen. The setting neutral Monster Mythology made the monstrous deities the default for all campaign worlds that didn't state otherwise. Pick up and read a copy of it, it's on the DMs Guild.

 

[Micah Sweet]

One could even say that the D&D Hobgoblin (martial-type) is the weird one in the mythocosmology, hobgoblins would be ancestrally fey. Actually, it can make for a good story as to how a family of hobgoblins fled from fairy and became the lawful evil brutes we all love...

Classic hobgoblins are one of my favorite humanoid races. I envision them with a culture very similar to Star Trek's Cardassians. Used them in a campaign that way, complete with a Dukat-expy NPC. rave reviews.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Classic hobgoblins are one of my favorite humanoid races. I envision them with a culture very similar to Star Trek's Cardassians. Used them in a campaign that way, complete with a Dukat-expy NPC. rave reviews.

"Classic" is a rather inaccurate term here. What you are talking about is neither the hobgoblin of folklore, nor the hobgoblin as originally presented in D&D.

But it's not going away any time soon, the different hobgoblins will exist in parallel for a good few years yet.

 

[Micah Sweet]

"Classic" is a rather inaccurate term here. What you are talking about is neither the hobgoblin of folklore, nor the hobgoblin as originally presented in D&D.

But it's not going away any time soon, the different hobgoblins will exist in parallel for a good few years yet.

Since by context I'm pretty sure you know what I meant, and I was clearly expressing something I thought was cool, I dont really see the need to correct my word choice. Cheerfully withdrawn, I suppose.

 

[Lyxen]

That was only in 4e. And we'll all quietly draw a curtain to hide everything done then. From 1e through 3e and in 5e in the Realms, he's been his own thing.

Ah, OK< another thing to blame on 4e then, cool.

And again, it wasn't stolen. The setting neutral Monster Mythology made the monstrous deities the default for all campaign worlds that didn't state otherwise. Pick up and read a copy of it, it's on the DMs Guild.

If I may, this is a rather late source, for me Maglubiyet first appeared in the 1st edition Deities and Demigods (awesome source), and the subtext is quite different: " There is a whole host of creatures which have been created for the game of ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS that have either been spawned from the minds and myths of past man or created entirely from the minds of the game masters. Such a wide diversity of creatures and subcultures requires an equally wide diversity of deities and lesser beings of power. The nonhuman races occupy different places in every Dungeon Master's individual world. Therefore, it would be extremely difficult to create complete pantheons of nonhuman gods that would be appropriate to every campaign. This section seeks only to outline some major beings important to the races created in the AD&D family. A complete pantheon of all dwarven gods, demigods and heroes can be easily imagined, but its complete notation is too awesome a task for a work of this limited size (as would be the complete notation of the deities of any of the nonhuman races). Let this section serve as a springboard for the DM. It presents a start for any extensive pantheon that the referee feels he or she may need."

In there, he is a greater god, the rival of Gruumsh in power, not a lackey:

• Maglubiyet is a war god and a great general. He commands mighty armies of goblin spirits in Hell, where they eternally war against Gruumsh's orcish spirit army. (Goblin and hobgoblin shamans claim that Maglubiyet always wins these battles, but there is no permanent death in Hell, so the destroyed orcish spirits always re-form.)
• The orcs say that Gruumsh commands a mighty army of spirit-ores in Hell, and these war continuously with a similar army of spirit-goblins controlled by Maglubiyet. The ores always defeat the goblins, but the goblin spirits always re-form to start the battle again

 

[Parmandur]

Ah, OK< another thing to blame on 4e then, cool.



If I may, this is a rather late source, for me Maglubiyet first appeared in the 1st edition Deities and Demigods (awesome source), and the subtext is quite different: " There is a whole host of creatures which have been created for the game of ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS that have either been spawned from the minds and myths of past man or created entirely from the minds of the game masters. Such a wide diversity of creatures and subcultures requires an equally wide diversity of deities and lesser beings of power. The nonhuman races occupy different places in every Dungeon Master's individual world. Therefore, it would be extremely difficult to create complete pantheons of nonhuman gods that would be appropriate to every campaign. This section seeks only to outline some major beings important to the races created in the AD&D family. A complete pantheon of all dwarven gods, demigods and heroes can be easily imagined, but its complete notation is too awesome a task for a work of this limited size (as would be the complete notation of the deities of any of the nonhuman races). Let this section serve as a springboard for the DM. It presents a start for any extensive pantheon that the referee feels he or she may need."

In there, he is a greater god, the rival of Gruumsh in power, not a lackey:

• Maglubiyet is a war god and a great general. He commands mighty armies of goblin spirits in Hell, where they eternally war against Gruumsh's orcish spirit army. (Goblin and hobgoblin shamans claim that Maglubiyet always wins these battles, but there is no permanent death in Hell, so the destroyed orcish spirits always re-form.)
• The orcs say that Gruumsh commands a mighty army of spirit-ores in Hell, and these war continuously with a similar army of spirit-goblins controlled by Maglubiyet. The ores always defeat the goblins, but the goblin spirits always re-form to start the battle again

I mean. Thst quote shows that Greenwood didn't "steal" anything, he ran with the book as directed for his home game.