mattcolville
Adventurer
Huh. So I could just ignore both sides of that equation, which we were doing, and everything would work out fine?
FFG's Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
- Thread starter mattcolville
- Start date
Huh. So I could just ignore both sides of that equation, which we were doing, and everything would work out fine?
jasonbostwick
Explorer
Number of rounds per combat would probably stay about the same, but it might have a wacky effect on game balance. The physical stats would be less valuable.
A feeble scholar and Dwarven Ironbreaker both doing the same damage with a greataxe seems a bit strange.
mattcolville
Adventurer
Good point. I don't think my players are likely to grab a greataxe for their scholar though.
Though actually...they would once they realized what they were missing.
I've been GMing the new Warhammer off-an-on for a few months now. I really like it! I have some reservations, but my group has found it a pleasant change from 4e DnD (which we ran for nearly a year, and also generally enjoyed).
In all, I think we've played 6 sessions. The learning curve was really easy, as my players were building their own dice pools and interpreting the results in the very first session. Occasionally I've had to remind people about various mechanics, but that usually is due to us skipping a week or two between sessions.
I agree that the rulebooks are great to read, but horrible to play with. Basically, the entire rules are written out in an almost narrative style, where the author is just explaining the game as if he were sitting you down at the table. It's actually a much more interesting read than, say, the 4e Player's Handbook. However, CONSTANTLY I remember reading a particular rule, but then find it impossible to find when needed at the gaming table. The designers could have taken one clue from the 4e books, by way of using bulletted lists for rules explanations.
But the play, is so much fun. I want to give one example of how the dice mechanic really makes this game fun.
In our second session, our party was attempting to sneak through some woods to surprise a camp of goblins. We had a wood elf Wayfarer (Ranger, basically) and she is a master at everything forest. However, the rest of the group refused to stay behind: a Boatman, an Apprentice Wizard, and a dwarf Trollslayer.
Instead of making each player make an individual check, I simply made the wood elf make a single check for the group. However, I compared the other three players' Agility to hers and saw that the other players could only hurt her chances. So, I simply let her roll, but added three misfortune dice to her pool. One die for each of her inept followers.
She rolled and failed because one of the misfortune dice proved too much to overcome. Immediately, the dwarf player (in character) let out a loud "ACHOOO!" and wiped his nose.
The players immediately say why the stealth roll failed (because of added misfortune of inept stealthers tromping through the woods), and they roleplayed accordingly.
It has been a reoccurring joke in my group, the sneezing dwarf, and a chorus of groans inevitably follows any call to make a group stealth check
In all, I think we've played 6 sessions. The learning curve was really easy, as my players were building their own dice pools and interpreting the results in the very first session. Occasionally I've had to remind people about various mechanics, but that usually is due to us skipping a week or two between sessions.
I agree that the rulebooks are great to read, but horrible to play with. Basically, the entire rules are written out in an almost narrative style, where the author is just explaining the game as if he were sitting you down at the table. It's actually a much more interesting read than, say, the 4e Player's Handbook. However, CONSTANTLY I remember reading a particular rule, but then find it impossible to find when needed at the gaming table. The designers could have taken one clue from the 4e books, by way of using bulletted lists for rules explanations.
But the play, is so much fun. I want to give one example of how the dice mechanic really makes this game fun.
In our second session, our party was attempting to sneak through some woods to surprise a camp of goblins. We had a wood elf Wayfarer (Ranger, basically) and she is a master at everything forest. However, the rest of the group refused to stay behind: a Boatman, an Apprentice Wizard, and a dwarf Trollslayer.
Instead of making each player make an individual check, I simply made the wood elf make a single check for the group. However, I compared the other three players' Agility to hers and saw that the other players could only hurt her chances. So, I simply let her roll, but added three misfortune dice to her pool. One die for each of her inept followers.
She rolled and failed because one of the misfortune dice proved too much to overcome. Immediately, the dwarf player (in character) let out a loud "ACHOOO!" and wiped his nose.
The players immediately say why the stealth roll failed (because of added misfortune of inept stealthers tromping through the woods), and they roleplayed accordingly.
It has been a reoccurring joke in my group, the sneezing dwarf, and a chorus of groans inevitably follows any call to make a group stealth check
Lord Xtheth
Explorer
I ran a single "test session" of this a couple weeks ago. I remember reading the rules straight through like you, and I remember immediately forgetting where the rules were for quick look up at the table... just like you. My 2 players did manage to go through a couple combats (I wasn't sure what the characters could do, so I took baby steps) The first combat was against a group of 4 greenskins.
3 rounds in, I hadn't dealt any damage, but one guy passed out from fatigue, and the other was getting close.
The second was against full blown goblins. The same guy passed out from fatigue, the second actually took damage.
The final combat was against a giant rat (I can't remember the skaven name, but it was the BIG ONE) The SAME player passed out from fatigue, and the second got his arse handed to him, but they still won.
I don't know if I was doing things right with damage and soak, but it played quickly, with few snags. Will I play it again? yes. Will they? I don't know.
3 rounds in, I hadn't dealt any damage, but one guy passed out from fatigue, and the other was getting close.
The second was against full blown goblins. The same guy passed out from fatigue, the second actually took damage.
The final combat was against a giant rat (I can't remember the skaven name, but it was the BIG ONE) The SAME player passed out from fatigue, and the second got his arse handed to him, but they still won.
I don't know if I was doing things right with damage and soak, but it played quickly, with few snags. Will I play it again? yes. Will they? I don't know.
Gort
Explorer
One idea for dragging combats in D&D is to say, "Okay, it's been ten rounds, everyone's getting too tired to effectively defend themselves. Everyone takes double damage from here on in."
Far more interesting than, "Well, now nobody can hit anyone else because you're all knackered."
auspexRex
First Post
I don't know if this is what you meant, but just to clarify in case anyone misinterprets:
You typically attack and defend in the same round of combat. Your active defenses are actions that can be used when it is not your turn (if they are not recharging). When someone attacks you, you can choose to block, parry, dodge, etc. depending on what defensive action cards you have available. This is in addition to the action you take on your turn, typically using an attack action. So, no, you don't get the option of attacking OR defending. You get to do both in the same round.
auspexRex
First Post
Solid review overall. I like the system, but agree it's got some flaws in the execution and could have really benefited from more editing. The core rules aren't that confusing once you figure them out, it's just the way the rules are revealed to the reader that is sometimes vague.
My only nitpick would be that the price is cited at $100, but anyone paying full price for an FFG product is either really loyal to their FLGS or just not wise to the fact that nearly every online retailer sells FFG products at massive discounts. Amazon sells the base set for $62, for example, and all of the expansions are similarly discounted around 25-35%.
I would add that there are a few other things that still aren't very clear, even after multiple FAQ updates. Using actions outside of encounter mode, for example, can be a little difficult to interpret. Does recharging matter outside of turn order? If not, can healing spells and actions which recover fatigue and stress be used over and over again outside of encounter mode with little to no consequence (I guess you could roll a chaos star or some banes, but ...)? Curently it seems that GM fiat and the narrative hooks/timing of a specific episode are the only real limitation to using action cards outside of encounter mode. A number of interesting house rules have been proposed to deal with this issue, however.
I like that the game represents some pretty bold steps in design and mechanics, especially for an established games company like FFG. It's unfortunate that the game's presentation flaws are so egregious, but ultimately that's something that most players can overcome with time, the help of the internet, and the FAQ on FFG's site.
I have all of the material that's been released for WFRP3 so far, so I'm clearly a fan. I should say that the information in the GM's Toolkit is quite helpful and clears some things up while providing a number of nice episode templates. I think The Gathering Storm is an excellent, if terribly short, campaign. The Winds of Magic supplement that was just released is fantastic.
I generally love the fluff and find that it's well written and engaging, and rarely detours into non-relevant territory.
I love that the expansions come with little mechanical add-ons you can choose to use or not: the nemesis rules in the GM's toolkit are really neat, the corruption and mutation rules in The Winds of Magic, the pet rules in The Adventurer's Toolkit.
I also love that the "tables" are so easy to customize and add to, since they are all essentially decks of cards. Don't like a card? Throw it out. Most expansions come with at least a few extra cards to add further variety to the wounds, miscast, or insanity decks.
And to anyone who says playing it via Virtual Tabletop is impossible; that's just bollocks. There's already a campaign framework for WFRP3 in MapTool (check the RPTools.net forums) which graphically depicts the special dice rolls in a very nice way. Plus, tracking the use of cards is easily dealt with by macros. Macros can even kick out the correct action details based on what stance you're currently in, etc. Recharge tokens and initiative can even be automated. It's not only possible, but some of this is being done.
My only nitpick would be that the price is cited at $100, but anyone paying full price for an FFG product is either really loyal to their FLGS or just not wise to the fact that nearly every online retailer sells FFG products at massive discounts. Amazon sells the base set for $62, for example, and all of the expansions are similarly discounted around 25-35%.
I would add that there are a few other things that still aren't very clear, even after multiple FAQ updates. Using actions outside of encounter mode, for example, can be a little difficult to interpret. Does recharging matter outside of turn order? If not, can healing spells and actions which recover fatigue and stress be used over and over again outside of encounter mode with little to no consequence (I guess you could roll a chaos star or some banes, but ...)? Curently it seems that GM fiat and the narrative hooks/timing of a specific episode are the only real limitation to using action cards outside of encounter mode. A number of interesting house rules have been proposed to deal with this issue, however.
I like that the game represents some pretty bold steps in design and mechanics, especially for an established games company like FFG. It's unfortunate that the game's presentation flaws are so egregious, but ultimately that's something that most players can overcome with time, the help of the internet, and the FAQ on FFG's site.
I have all of the material that's been released for WFRP3 so far, so I'm clearly a fan. I should say that the information in the GM's Toolkit is quite helpful and clears some things up while providing a number of nice episode templates. I think The Gathering Storm is an excellent, if terribly short, campaign. The Winds of Magic supplement that was just released is fantastic.
I generally love the fluff and find that it's well written and engaging, and rarely detours into non-relevant territory.
I love that the expansions come with little mechanical add-ons you can choose to use or not: the nemesis rules in the GM's toolkit are really neat, the corruption and mutation rules in The Winds of Magic, the pet rules in The Adventurer's Toolkit.
I also love that the "tables" are so easy to customize and add to, since they are all essentially decks of cards. Don't like a card? Throw it out. Most expansions come with at least a few extra cards to add further variety to the wounds, miscast, or insanity decks.
And to anyone who says playing it via Virtual Tabletop is impossible; that's just bollocks. There's already a campaign framework for WFRP3 in MapTool (check the RPTools.net forums) which graphically depicts the special dice rolls in a very nice way. Plus, tracking the use of cards is easily dealt with by macros. Macros can even kick out the correct action details based on what stance you're currently in, etc. Recharge tokens and initiative can even be automated. It's not only possible, but some of this is being done.
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auspexRex
First Post
Since you found the FAQ, you probably found the "living index" too. Just in case you or other readers did not, there's an index online in downloadable, printable .PDF format. It's updated after every WFRP release to include all the books, so it's a "living" index.
Also, the GM's Toolkit includes a printed index of everything that was released up that point.
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