Fiddling around with Fifth Ed

[The Crimson Binome]

That sounds better. But only a bit. There is no social pressure. Ir there should not be. I expect everyone to play their character. If you are playing in a game that has a social contract about the power level of characters then of course you should try to fulfill it. But it is no board game where you win or lose if you don't overcome given challenges.

It's not about requiring a specific power level. It's about making a good faith effort toward the common cause. There may not be formal conditions for winning or losing, but dying randomly in the middle of a dungeon isn't much fun for anyone, and everyone else is working to avoid that.

We once rolled for stats in 3.0 and our bard had stats of 8 9 10 12 13 14. I think in that order. Was the best bard you could wish for. Not only focussed completely to be the best social character ever selling every piece of loot with profit bit also used inspiration to probably deal the most damage by lmproving all other characters. I don't know if that would have qualified as a legit character for you.

As I said before, rolling randomly for stats is one way to avoid fault when it comes to making decisions. They may not have been the best bard you could want, but it looks to me like they made a good faith effort to do what they could with what they had. (Bard might even be the optimal class choice, given those stats.)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It's not about requiring a specific power level. It's about making a good faith effort toward the common cause. There may not be formal conditions for winning or losing, but dying randomly in the middle of a dungeon isn't much fun for anyone, and everyone else is working to avoid that.
As I said before, rolling randomly for stats is one way to avoid fault when it comes to making decisions. They may not have been the best bard you could want, but it looks to me like they made a good faith effort to do what they could with what they had. (Bard might even be the optimal class choice, given those stats.)

I do agree. Randomly dying in a dungeon because someone just does not want to help or intentionally wants to spoil the fun of the others is not someone who I want to play eith either. But those are choices during play not during character creation. I would not blame someone else that they could have saved me if he had increased his str instead of taking the actor feat. Especially if it fits his character and he already used it to help the group...
I'd also never blame someon if he plays an elf with high str. Actually I'd like that. Of course with point buy using your +2 on a stat below 13 is wasting a point or 2. But it is well within the power curve.

 

[Coroc]

5e is as deadly as every other Edition if the DM choses so.

The Encounter creation math is bollocks. You have to homebrew on this one for satisfying results imho. It also depends on your Encounter / day economy and your Players, number of Magic items, tactical battleground etc etc. For a start try this: create some of the humanoid oponents (e.g. orcs hobgoblins lizardmen or humans (evil) dwarves (evil) or whatever is a frequent humanoid oponent in your campaign) more close to Players. Give them Levels and Equipment. You do not hve to give them feats or such, but e.g. if the orc captain is 5th Level he gets These attributes 18 14 18 12 12 14, 5d8+20 HP, #AT 2, damage 1d10+4 AC 18 (for some two handed weapon and platemail). This guy will be a suitable miniboss for a Level 3 Group, and a suitable solo mob for a lvl 1-2 Group.

I take pride in balancing my main Encounters so that there is almost always a slight Chance one of the chars might die, but most often the Party will be on their last Resort when they won. That feels good to me and to my Players. But i do not do 6-8 Encounters / day but i do gritty healing (8h short rest, Weekend at inn = Long rest)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

5e is as deadly as every other Edition if the DM choses so.

The Encounter creation math is bollocks. You have to homebrew on this one for satisfying results imho. It also depends on your Encounter / day economy and your Players, number of Magic items, tactical battleground etc etc. For a start try this: create some of the humanoid oponents (e.g. orcs hobgoblins lizardmen or humans (evil) dwarves (evil) or whatever is a frequent humanoid oponent in your campaign) more close to Players. Give them Levels and Equipment. You do not hve to give them feats or such, but e.g. if the orc captain is 5th Level he gets These attributes 18 14 18 12 12 14, 5d8+20 HP, #AT 2, damage 1d10+4 AC 18 (for some two handed weapon and platemail). This guy will be a suitable miniboss for a Level 3 Group, and a suitable solo mob for a lvl 1-2 Group.

I take pride in balancing my main Encounters so that there is almost always a slight Chance one of the chars might die, but most often the Party will be on their last Resort when they won. That feels good to me and to my Players. But i do not do 6-8 Encounters / day but i do gritty healing (8h short rest, Weekend at inn = Long rest)

That is a good way to handle it. The encoubter creation guidelines are ok for a first time dm though. If you are more experienced you honestly don't need them.

And actually they would fall flat anyway. Remember tucker's kobolds. If the terrain is favouring the enemies, you can make every monster dangerous even if they are too easy on paper.

 

[MechaPilot]

I thought we were supposed to be heroes. Isn't that the premise?

Good God, no.

You can be a hero, if you want to be. But, you can also be a villain, a mercenary out for only herself, a roving band of murder hobos, the entourage for a lord or lady who wants to explore the wild world and needs bodyguards, etc.

The premise of the game has always been the acquisition of wealth. That's how you got XP and leveled-up early on, and in later editions defeating foes (and then taking their stuff) took the place of just getting cold hard cash.

 

[Salthorae]

I thought we were supposed to be heroes. Isn't that the premise?

That's the beauty of the game, you absolutely can be if you want. Or reluctant heroes or anti-heroes, or evil assassins, or a roving band of bandits, or a merry band of outlaws, or a pious holy order struggling just to make it in an indifferent world.

But none of that has anything to do with character creation and how one chooses to make their PC, optimized or not.

 

[Oofta]

Good God, no.

You can be a hero, if you want to be. But, you can also be a villain, a mercenary out for only herself, a roving band of murder hobos, the entourage for a lord or lady who wants to explore the wild world and needs bodyguards, etc.

The premise of the game has always been the acquisition of wealth. That's how you got XP and leveled-up early on, and in later editions defeating foes (and then taking their stuff) took the place of just getting cold hard cash.

Whether or not you want your characters to be heroes or brigands should be part of the slot 0. As far as "the premise of the game..." I disagree. It may be for your group, it may have been part of the rules way back when but it is no longer. I've played characters who were obsessed with wealth, others that gave away practically every copper.

The premise of the game is what you make it.

 

[MechaPilot]

Whether or not you want your characters to be heroes or brigands should be part of the slot 0.

If that's another way of saying "session zero" or "before the first game session" then I agree.

As far as "the premise of the game..." I disagree. It may be for your group, it may have been part of the rules way back when but it is no longer. I've played characters who were obsessed with wealth, others that gave away practically every copper.

It's not the premise of the game for my group (though it certainly is a prime motivator for several characters), but I also give story awards to keep the PC's leveling up from doing more than just defeating/killing things and taking their stuff.

The premise of the game is what you make it.

The premise of the game, generally, is fantasy adventure: and that usually involves slaying monsters; fighting evil mages; and exploring the wilderness, delving into dungeons, and seeking ancient ruins. This can certainly be changed, and I'd argue that you should change it now again just to play with different tropes and expectation, but the game is generally built and designed around the concept of defeat creatures, take their stuff, level up, and repeat.

 

[Tony Vargas]

That's the beauty of the game, you absolutely can be if you want. Or reluctant heroes or anti-heroes, or evil assassins, or a roving band of bandits, or a merry band of outlaws, or a pious holy order struggling just to make it in an indifferent world.
But none of that has anything to do with character creation and how one chooses to make their PC, optimized or not.

Doing a 'reluctant hero' is problematic in 5e - heck, in D&D in general, and in most RPGs, really.

 

[MechaPilot]

Doing a 'reluctant hero' is problematic in 5e - heck, in D&D in general, and in most RPGs, really.

Especially as part of a party.