D&D 5E fifth edition release schedule ... cart before the horse?

[am181d]

but the amount of official product for 5e is way too limited for my tastes-this 2 months after phb was released. take away hoard and you have a phb and mm. take away phb and you have hoard and mm...well you get my point. so at present...and following the logical assumption that if i bought phb i wouldn't then turn around and pay 20 bucks for lost mines...i just have hoard.

Your point seems to be "if I discount some of the material WotC has released, they have not released enough material." I don't understand this argument at all. There are folks who are playing through both MINES and HOARD. The next book will be out before folks are finished with HOARD. This output is as quick as D&D has ever released new material for a new edition.

You're of course welcome to not like what WotC is producing (or to be turned off by tepid reviews), but this idea that they have somehow dropped the ball in not producing ENOUGH adventures is demonstrably factually inaccurate.

 

[Henrix]

Fan done stuff tends to have serious issues unless someone's making a buck somewhere off of it.

Trollzine, for example, is on editor #4... in 8 issues. The issues of layout, editing, and pasteup make for interesting challenges. Getting maps into an easily used and printed format also is a good bit of work. Unpaid volunteers...

It has been done, and is being done right now, all over the place.

I don't see why it should be impossible just because not all succeed.

But it needs someone willing to do it, which is easier in small press, or OoP, games.

 

[Iosue]

I admit, I don't know who Rob Kuntz even is, so you may have a point there.

Rob Kuntz was one of the original playtesters of D&D before it was released. He was there with Gygax when Arneson showed him the game, co-DMed Gygax's campaign, and was one of the first employees of TSR.

How's about this quote, though:

" I can complete a mission in Mass Effect in about an hour and a half. So why can’t I complete an adventure in D&D in that time? Why does it take me 4, 8, 12 hours just to get from page one of the adventure to the end? I mean, yeah, you can have huge epic adventures but I can’t do it in less than four hours." - Mike Mearls

It speaks to the value of time and the other things competing for our time. In this way homebrew is definitely not a winner. Any ideas that you don't have to develop yourself are a savings in time. Assuming that everyone who runs a game of D&D will decide to devote hours to development ultimately means a smaller customer base, as market research clearly shows.

It's a very nice quote, I'm very happy to see it, and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said. I'm not saying that homebrew is the one true way to play, nor am I saying that using published material is inferior. I'm simply pointing out that homebrew != fanfiction.

Point there is even if it somehow was the 'true way to play', they realize now they were wrong. Or at least times have changed.

I'm not saying that homebrew is the one true way to play, nor am I saying that using published material is inferior. I'm simply pointing out that homebrew != fanfiction.

[MENTION=6680772]Iosue[/MENTION] It--home brew everything--was true in like 1974.

Yes, that was my point.

Temple of the Frog was included in the Blackmoor booklet in 1975. They would then license or distribute adventures from 3rd parties (like Wee Warriors) and produce modules for tournements for the next few years.

In 1978 B1 was released with Holmes Basic and the Gs and Ds and S1 Tomb of Horrors came out that same year. The floodgates had opened.

Those are very nice published adventures, I'm very happy to have used them, and they have absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said. I'm not saying that homebrew is the one true way to play, nor am I saying that using published material is inferior. I'm simply pointing out that homebrew != fanfiction.

As for the whole "derivative" thing...everything is derivative of everything. But of course their are very creative homebrews...and just terrible published adventures. Plenty, along with the gems.

I have already said that derivative doesn't mean bad. It just means derivative. And the general concept of homebrews is not derivative like the general concept of fanfiction is. A highly creative homebrew can be as original as a thing can be. Even the most creative fanfiction is still a derivative work of the source material. That's not a criticism; when it comes to fanfiction that's a feature, not a bug.

 

[Zaukrie]

I agree, we need modules. If they are hard for wotc to create, imagine being a new DM. As someone said above, we really miss Dungeon right now. Stand alone adventures are missing. Some of the replies here are seriously condescending to those that want modules.

 

[TerraDave]

I'm simply pointing out that homebrew != fanfiction.


<home brew everything--was true in like 1974.>

Yes, that was my point.

Whats the link again? You seem to be making two distinct points.

Maybe that fiction is just that, where as D&D is more like a tool to make your game in your way?

 

[mcbobbo]

I have already said that derivative doesn't mean bad. It just means derivative. And the general concept of homebrews is not derivative like the general concept of fanfiction is. A highly creative homebrew can be as original as a thing can be. Even the most creative fanfiction is still a derivative work of the source material. That's not a criticism; when it comes to fanfiction that's a feature, not a bug.

Might be best to bring this fight to whomever actually said homebrew was fan fiction. I certainly never did, and wouldn't care if someone did or did not draw that comparison.

In fact you can easily make the case that fan fiction is typically NOT as derivative as Tolkien-esqe RPGs. My wife, for example, raves about certain "ships" that are inconceivable by canon and are (or sound at least to be) superior to the author's own work.

In short that particular comparison, without tieing it back to quality, is a bizarre hill to die on.

 

[Iosue]

Whats the link again? You seem to be making two distinct points.

Maybe that fiction is just that, where as D&D is more like a tool to make your game in your way?

The OP compared homebrew to fanfiction. I'm simply saying that with fanfiction, the fanfiction comes after, and his heavily derivative of, the original material. Homebrew, on the other hand, has a long tradition in the hobby predating any published adventures or campaigns. So someone who's engaging in homebrew is not doing the same thing as creating fanficton.

Might be best to bring this fight to whomever actually said homebrew was fan fiction. I certainly never did, and wouldn't care if someone did or did not draw that comparison.

I did.

and yeah i know you can just let your dm 'create' a world but i don't want to play fanfiction..

You're the one that quoted and respond to me. I didn't quote you.

In fact you can easily make the case that fan fiction is typically NOT as derivative as Tolkien-esqe RPGs. My wife, for example, raves about certain "ships" that are inconceivable by canon and are (or sound at least to be) superior to the author's own work.

You could try to make the case, I suppose, but I don't see it as easily made. Using similar tropes strikes me as less derivative than using the same exact characters and setting.

In short that particular comparison, without tieing it back to quality, is a bizarre hill to die on.

I'm not dying on any hill. I simply said homebrew is not equivalent to fanfiction. Your replies to me have been completely tangential to that original point. Quality, incidentally, is irrelevant to my point, because I'm not operating from the perspective of "derivative = bad". That there are bad homebrews and fantastic fanfiction doesn't change that the former is a natural part of D&D, intended by the authors of the game, while the latter is consciously derivative of a different work, irrespective of the original author's intent or desire. They are similar creative processes, and certainly linked as expressions of wish-fulfillment, and yet they remain distinct.

 

[mcbobbo]

I'm not dying on any hill. I simply said homebrew is not equivalent to fanfiction. Your replies to me have been completely tangential to that original point. Quality, incidentally, is irrelevant to my point, because I'm not operating from the perspective of "derivative = bad". That there are bad homebrews and fantastic fanfiction doesn't change that the former is a natural part of D&D, intended by the authors of the game, while the latter is consciously derivative of a different work, irrespective of the original author's intent or desire. They are similar creative processes, and certainly linked as expressions of wish-fulfillment, and yet they remain distinct.

In that same vein, apples are not pears, though both are fruit that grow on trees and can be delicious to eat.

Not that it adds anything to the conversation while we forbid the topic of pie making, but at least I got the last word in...

Is that how this works?

 

[Iosue]

In that same vein, apples are not pears, though both are fruit that grow on trees and can be delicious to eat.

Not that it adds anything to the conversation while we forbid the topic of pie making, but at least I got the last word in...

Is that how this works?

Yes. No, wait...!

 

[TerraDave]

yeah i know you can just let your dm 'create' a world but i don't want to play fanfiction.. i want to see what the designers put together for this system (which again i really enjoy). .

[MENTION=6777934]Maldavos[/MENTION] i pretty much consider all 'homebrew' worlds to be inferior

i'm not really arguing against homebrew and it really doesn't matter if i was (i can't imagine all the worldbuilders are going to stop due to a comment in a thread ). onwards !

Re: homebrew. I don't care if someone likes or dislikes homebrew. I'd just ask that it not be compared to fanfiction. Fanfiction is inherently derivative, whereas when it comes to D&D worlds, homebrew came first. Before there were any official campaign settings or even any published adventures, there was homebrew. It's how the game was intended to be played.

AHH, now I have got it.

Selkirk is welcome to his opinion. But it won't match up with a lot of peoples experiences. Homebrew games are often the best, but to be so (especially if you are home brewing all the adventure content) takes a lot from the DM.

Playing, say, only FR modules in FR...maybe its good, but could also be very, very bad. The world/setting is probably more of a taste issue. But for all the good adventures, there have been a lot of mediocre adventures over the years. TSR, WotC, Paizo, 3rd party producers like Necromancer/Frog God, have all put out bad adventures along with the good ones. In some cases many, many bad ones.

So, if your asking for WotC to put out a bunch of great, instant classic, intro adventures, it would be nice, but is probably a lot to ask for.