D&D 5E (2024) Fighter brainstorm

[Incenjucar]

I think you missed the "magic" part of question. If you usually wield a normal greataxe and find a magical greatsword . . .

You end up with the DM dictating your character build.

 

[Pauln6]

I think it's a shame that they rowed back from bundling up fighter manoeuvres in packages that could be slapped on as broad fighting styles. Level Up gives the martial classes exertion points which can be spent on manoeuvres in packaged fighting styles. Looks good fun but effectively bakes the battlemaster into the core fighter. Presumably they have a basic package for champion style builds.

 

[Gorck]

I think you missed the "magic" part of question. If you usually wield a normal greataxe and find a magical greatsword . . .

I posted this and then realized I was 3 pages behind, and I was late to the party.

But this whole conversation is giving me flashbacks to 3e/3.5e where I always tried to make sure my character had a silvered weapon in case we ran into a were-creature.

And another thing I didn't take into consideration was feats. If you wield a maul and took Crusher, you might not want to snag that magical greatsword unless its magical properties are worth wasting the feat.

 

[Pauln6]

my blade singer having a cantrip that adds fire and one that adds thunder to my melee attacks is insane... that I will be able to do that and get an extra attack soon is gonzo...

I think attack cantrips will be magical attacks rather than a spell attack that lets you make a melee attack so as to avoid sneak, smite, and superiority dice stacking. TWF will only work with the attack action plus would you not need a hand free for most spells? It remains to be seen if Eldritch Knights who cast a cantrip as a bonus action will be able to use TWF in that same round. I suspect not.

 

[Incenjucar]

It's certainly nice that fighters are not worse with random weapons than paladins, but they likely have burned character options on specific weapons, so it becomes a limitation in the long run.

 

[James Gasik]

Sure there is. Monsters today still have resistances and immunities. And illustrates a value in the versatility that the fighter has that the cantrip casting wizard doesn't.

"I cast firebolt."
"Ok, the monster is resistant/immune to fire."
"Um...ok. well...."

"I attack with my axe."
"Ok, the monster is resistant/immune to slashing damage."
"Oh, so I break out my warhammer then."

Yeah and you'll notice those are actually pretty rare in 5e, as opposed to previous editions.

 

[James Gasik]

I think you missed the "magic" part of question. If you usually wield a normal greataxe and find a magical greatsword . . .

Not at all. What I'm saying is, sure, you trade to the magic weapon and all that changes (other than whatever the enchantment does) is that your base damage might change in a very minor way. It's not the type of weapon matters.

And this isn't really some unique advantage; just about any class that has any business using a melee weapons has access to at least some martial weapons (perhaps due to a subclass). And of special note is the fact that if you're a Dexterity martial, most of those weapons are useless to you anyways.

So yeah, sure, maybe there's an instance where a Cleric might miss out on a +1 long sword because he lacks a Domain that gives him proficiency. Guess what? He's not a primary melee combatant anyways!

So this "advantage" only exists if the DM doesn't want to tailor loot to his campaign, there's a chance that a Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, or Ranger can use any old weapon that comes along effectively, and secondary combatants like Clerics, Rogues, Bards, and oddball subclasses cannot.

You're basically saying "it's a good thing that class X can use magic items intended for their class, what a great special feature!".

 

[Incenjucar]

The only things that fighters get that's really special is high attack frequency and more feats. Their defensive options aren't nothing but aren't super remarkable either. More feats is pretty nice! Nothing unique obviously, but nice.

Attack frequency is the real standout, but for all the frequency those attacks are pretty limited.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Its not that hard to make a Fighter ''more'' than what they are in regular 5e:

1: Fighting Style, Second Wind

2: Action Surge,
Asses Foes:
As a bonus action, you analyze the aura of one creature you see. You learn its current hit point total and all its immunities, resistances, and vulnerabilities. Alternatively, you can learn a one-word summary of the emotional state of up to six creatures you can see, such as happy, confused, afraid, or violent. You can use this feature PB/long rest.

3: Archetype,
Battle Assist: The fighter is adept at giving well-timed assistance; the fighter can take the Help action as a bonus action.

4: Feat
5: Extra Attack

6: Fighting Style (2),
Coordinated Strike: The fighter is adept at fighting in concert with a companion. When the fighter uses its Helpful feature to aid an ally in attacking a creature, that target can be up to 30 feet away from the fighter, and the fighter can deal an extra 2d6 damage to it the next time the fighter hits it with an attack roll before the end of the current turn. The extra damage is the same type of damage dealt by the attack.

7: Archetype,
Tactician's Eyes: You have proficiency in your choice of History, Insight, Intimidate, Persuasion or Deception. When you make the a check using the chosen proficiency against a creature you've targeted with Asses Foes, you have advantage on the roll.

8: Feat
9: Indomitable:
Your toughness allows you to shrug off assaults that would devastate others.
Whenever you make a saving throw, roll 1d4 and add the die to your saving throw total. If applying this bonus to a death saving throw increases the total to 20 or higher, you gain the benefits of rolling a 20 on the d20.

10: Archetype
11: Extra Attack (2)
12: Feat

13: Inspiring Help:
When the Fighter takes the Help action, the creature who receives the help also gains a 1d6 bonus to the d20 roll. If that roll is an attack roll, the creature can forgo adding the bonus to it, and then if the attack hits, the creature can add the bonus to the attack's damage roll against one target.

At 20th level, the bonus increases to 2d6.

14: Victory Before Battle: When you roll initiative, you can use this ability to grant yourself and up to five creatures of your choice within 60 feet of you a +10 bonus to initiative and the creatures have advantage on their next attack on the first round of combat. You must complete a long rest before you can use this feature again.

15: Archetype
16: Feat
17: Extra attack (3)
18: Archetype
19: Feat
20: Battle Lord: The die rolled for Inspiring Help become 2d6 and the die from Indomitable becomes 1d6.

 

[deganawida]

Me too! What's a thing you have in mind for OneD&D?

I'm trying to think in terms of thematics. I'm asking myself, "what is the heart of each melee class?"

Barbarians: rage
Paladins: mission
Rogues: stealth
Monks: ki
Fighters: ...hmmm. Experience? Knowledge?

This made me realize that one thing fighters possibly lack is a clear enough class concept. When you look at the class description, it is pretty broad ("well-rounded specialists"). But the core idea that is conveyed is of the student of battle, in some form or another. Like the tough sergeant, or grizzled veteran. What those archetypes have in common is knowledge of how to fight. Tactics, really.

Which led me to reflect that the D&D fighter is too heavily built around strength (or dexterity, for a few builds). Intelligence should also play a role in how fighters are designed to play. Could we come up with a new baseline fighter ability that allows them to combine strength and intelligence in some way? Would that make them too MAD?

Interestingly enough, I was having a discussion with a friend this afternoon, and pulled out my 5e DMG to look at optional rules.

Somewhere around page 268, there’s a section about using proficiency bonus with abilities and getting rid of skills. Where it got interesting to me is where it listed Str, Dex, or Wis as allowed choices for the Fighter.

Now, let’s take that, that Fighter has Str, Dex, or Wis as its main abilities, and pull it back into class design. What do we get? We get a powerful fighter (Str), a nimble fighter (Dex), and… a canny fighter (Wis).

Take it slightly further, and allow a Fighter to pick as main attack ability Str, Dex, and Wis, and suddenly you have more variety in the Fighter at baseline, and you can have someone who’s not as strong as other Fighters or Barbarians (I’ve had a problem the last 23 years about how you’re encouraged to max out your attack stat, which removes distinctions in characters), but is far more clever, and is a perfect fit for subclasses like the Battle Master.

Thinking of it that way actually made me think that, yeah, if my DM is good with letting me make a canny fighter, one of my major hang-ups with 5e would be resolved.

As an aside, I still think all Fighters should get some maneuvers, so that could be their schtick, along with the above.