Fighter Power doubts

[Dr_Sage]

Sorry if seems silly, but I would like some confirmation:

1- Cleave kills minions, even if I hit them with the "splash damage". In the case I am not fighting a minion, how much damage does my cleave actually do using my axe?
I have Dwarven Weapon Training and 16-Str, so I do "3" or "5" hp damage?

2- I am considering getting the mighty Rain of Steel daily fighter power. It does kill minions right?
In the case on regular/elite monsters it does my axe base damage or my axe +2 from Dw Weapon Training?

3- If I get a +1 magic weapon, does the "+1" adds to the examples above?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Sage

 

[Vomax]

Dwarven Weapon Training and magic weapon bonuses apply to anything that requires you to roll a die to determine weapon damage. The secondary damage from Cleave doesn't require you to roll so those bonuses don't apply. Rain of Steel says you do 1[W] to enemies, which is a roll of the die, so those bonuses do apply. And yes, Rain of Steel will kill minions. The only thing minions are immune to is damage on a miss, like Reaping Strike.

 

[Dalzig]

1. DWT applies to damage rolls. If you don't roll dice, you don't get the bonus damage.

2. By RAW, Rain of Steel does indeed slaughter minions by the dozens. Some DMs may play it differently though. (We like our minions a bit too much. )

2a. See 1. Since you are rolling a die now, you get DWT bonus damage.

3. Enhancement bonuses also apply to damage rolls. See 1 & 2a.

 

[GorTeX]

1- Cleave does your Strength mod in damage to an adjacent target. You don't get to add most modifiers to this as they generally need to be added to damage rolls, not static numbers. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Pit Fighters level 16 ability to add wisdom mod to damage (not damage rolls)

2-Yes, Rain of steel would kill a minion that started adjacent to you after you activated the stance. Since it does use a damage roll (1[w]) and has the weapon keyword, you get to add most modifiers to damage to it (magical enhanments, feat, items, etc)

3-Not for cleave's secondary damage (it's not a damage roll) but yes for Rain of Steel

 

[Dr_Sage]

Thanks

Thanks a LOT.

Wow, that was fast.

 

[Hypersmurf]

My followup question is currently with CustServ - they want to talk to a designer to clarfiy, but all the designers are apparently busy with DDXP.

Let's say your dwarf fighter with Cleave crits with a +1 greataxe.

To the primary target, he deals:
A maximised d12.
+3 (Str bonus)
+1 (enhancement)
+2 (DWT)
an extra d12 (high crit weapon)
an extra d6 (magic weapon crit)

What does he deal to the adjacent enemy?
We know he deals Str bonus.
We know he doesn't get +1 (no damage roll).
We know he doesn't get +2 (no damage roll).

But what about the high crit d12 and the magic weapon d6? Neither specify that a damage roll is required. The description of Criticals under Magic Weapons, for example, requires that the power "deals damage"... and Cleave deals damage to an enemy adjacent to the target.

The possible sticking point with High Crit is that the attack deals "extra dice" of damage. Can you deal extra dice if you aren't currently dealing any dice, only damage?

-Hyp.

 

[Ottergame]

My followup question is currently with CustServ - they want to talk to a designer to clarfiy, but all the designers are apparently busy with DDXP.

Let's say your dwarf fighter with Cleave crits with a +1 greataxe.

To the primary target, he deals:
A maximised d12.
+3 (Str bonus)
+1 (enhancement)
+2 (DWT)
an extra d12 (high crit weapon)
an extra d6 (magic weapon crit)

What does he deal to the adjacent enemy?
We know he deals Str bonus.
We know he doesn't get +1 (no damage roll).
We know he doesn't get +2 (no damage roll).

But what about the high crit d12 and the magic weapon d6? Neither specify that a damage roll is required. The description of Criticals under Magic Weapons, for example, requires that the power "deals damage"... and Cleave deals damage to an enemy adjacent to the target.

The possible sticking point with High Crit is that the attack deals "extra dice" of damage. Can you deal extra dice if you aren't currently dealing any dice, only damage?

-Hyp.

You're not making an attack on the minion with cleave, so you can't roll a critical against them, so nothing that triggers on a crit happens to the minion.

The extra damage from cleave is unrelated to the damage you do to your power's target.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Pit Fighters level 16 ability to add wisdom mod to damage (not damage rolls)

I asked CS about the Dirty Fighting feature on a different occasion, here is their reply:

Reaping Strike (P77): on a MISS I deal STR mod dmg with a 2h wpn. do I get the WIS mod on top?

--You only get this extra damage if you roll Weapon [W] damage. Since you do not roll the weapon damage on a Miss you would not apply the WIS modifier.

 

[Kordeth]

You're not making an attack on the minion with cleave, so you can't roll a critical against them, so nothing that triggers on a crit happens to the minion.

The extra damage from cleave is unrelated to the damage you do to your power's target.

Except that the extra damage from cleave is the result of an attack roll, because it's part of the Hit effect of the power, and the critical hit rules don't distinguish between the target of the attack roll and any other targets damaged by that attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except that the extra damage from cleave is the result of an attack roll, because it's part of the Hit effect of the power, and the critical hit rules don't distinguish between the target of the attack roll and any other targets damaged by that attack.

Especially since, as part of the same discussion with CustServ, they've already confirmed that the damage to adjacent enemies from Fiery Bolt is maximized on a critical, and the +xd6 for a magical implement applies.

-Hyp.