Fighter with spells

[Dakkareth]

So, I'm making a character to join a new group and after a few months of other systems I'm struggling a little with the system. So, a little help would be appreciated.

The idea is inspired by Boondock Saints, a man driven by his belief to punish the wicked, committing heinous deeds in the process himself. All fine and well so far, in a world (Forgotten Realms) where Paladins do this all day and are regarded as heroes for it. Only I want a little more grey there, do away with the obvious 'Tyr is a god of Good, so whatever his servant does in his name is Good'.

Hence my idea: Don't play a paladin, play a fighter (or other combat-able class) with a few levels of sorcerer (or other spell-casting class without obvious sanction-from-above). He'd call himself a paladin, act like one (maybe), but objectively his power is coming from somewhere else and don't represent the approval of a god. A nice source of inner and outer conflict, as others might grow suspicious of this 'scion of god X' and at some time he might have to deal with the fact, that he isn't 'chosen' after all and that maybe his actions weren't all good either.

But ... maybe it is my inner powergamer (yeah, he exists, I admit it) or maybe it is an inherent failure of the system, but the available possibilities to merge fighting-type and spellcaster (mostly through obscure PrCs and other tricks) leave me unsatisfied. A fighter/sorcerer is next to powerless compared to a cleric (who embodies the same split of abilities) or indeed most other combinations. The Eldritch Knight seems to work only at higher levels (where this game probably won't go). So, what to do, keeping to core classes or at least WotC material?

Maybe I'm overlooking something or simply setting my sights to high (not having tried an actual build)? Maybe I should simply play a cleric and mentally do away with the 'cleric is automatically sanctioned by his god' part? Maybe I should stop over-analyzing? You tell me. Is a fighting-class/arcane-caster combination viable at level 7 (IE, fun to play with multiple options, not falling behind the rest of the group in power) and if yes, how?

Edit: Before you say it, yes, obviously I should talk about it with the DM. But I'm new to this group and thus would like to get some opinions from more system-savvy people before.

 

[William Ronald]

So, I'm making a character to join a new group and after a few months of other systems I'm struggling a little with the system. So, a little help would be appreciated.

The idea is inspired by Boondock Saints, a man driven by his belief to punish the wicked, committing heinous deeds in the process himself. All fine and well so far, in a world (Forgotten Realms) where Paladins do this all day and are regarded as heroes for it. Only I want a little more grey there, do away with the obvious 'Tyr is a god of Good, so whatever his servant does in his name is Good'.

Hence my idea: Don't play a paladin, play a fighter (or other combat-able class) with a few levels of sorcerer (or other spell-casting class without obvious sanction-from-above). He'd call himself a paladin, act like one (maybe), but objectively his power is coming from somewhere else and don't represent the approval of a god. A nice source of inner and outer conflict, as others might grow suspicious of this 'scion of god X' and at some time he might have to deal with the fact, that he isn't 'chosen' after all and that maybe his actions weren't all good either.

But ... maybe it is my inner powergamer (yeah, he exists, I admit it) or maybe it is an inherent failure of the system, but the available possibilities to merge fighting-type and spellcaster (mostly through obscure PrCs and other tricks) leave me unsatisfied. A fighter/sorcerer is next to powerless compared to a cleric (who embodies the same split of abilities) or indeed most other combinations. The Eldritch Knight seems to work only at higher levels (where this game probably won't go). So, what to do, keeping to core classes or at least WotC material?

Maybe I'm overlooking something or simply setting my sights to high (not having tried an actual build)? Maybe I should simply play a cleric and mentally do away with the 'cleric is automatically sanctioned by his god' part? Maybe I should stop over-analyzing? You tell me. Is a fighting-class/arcane-caster combination viable at level 7 (IE, fun to play with multiple options, not falling behind the rest of the group in power) and if yes, how?

In terms of core classes, I think that a well designed 7th level fighting-class/arcane caster might work. You should probably focus on a spell list that strengthens your fighting skills. Your character will have to stick to light armor to reduce spell penalty failure.

Possibly you and your DM might want to take a look at the Mage Blade from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed. The class has a d8 for hitpoints, gains some magical abilities, and fights well. Plus their athame -- a weapon dedicated as a spell focus item -- allows the mage blade to use its motions as a somatic spell component, eliminating the penalty for spell failure. (They only gain simple spells in AU's system. However, as the class is designed to run without alignments it does solve several of your concerns.)

 

[Dakkareth]

In terms of core classes, I think that a well designed 7th level fighting-class/arcane caster might work. You should probably focus on a spell list that strengthens your fighting skills. Your character will have to stick to light armor to reduce spell penalty failure.

What would 'well designed' mean in this case? What to watch out for, what to avoid? After several months of Exalted my mindset is far away from the intricacies of DnD character-tweaking ... my thoughts, if I was to go that way, were to select a few useful cantrips then True Strike, Protection from Alignment and Magic Weapon to replicate the 'typical' Paladin abilities.

Possibly you and your DM might want to take a look at the Mage Blade from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed. The class has a d8 for hitpoints, gains some magical abilities, and fights well. Plus their athame -- a weapon dedicated as a spell focus item -- allows the mage blade to use its motions as a somatic spell component, eliminating the penalty for spell failure. (They only gain simple spells in AU's system. However, as the class is designed to run without alignments it does solve several of your concerns.)

AU - is this the book, where the spell-point system is in? Because that's used anyway. And thanks for the suggestion, I'll take a look into it at the LGS.

 

[IcyCool]

Another option for you might be the Hex-Blade base class, from Complete Arcane.

 

[JimAde]

The Hexblade is another option if you're willing to go non-core. His arcane abilities could easily be perceived as divine smiting. But as written the hexblade must be non-good. This might fit your idea perfectly...

Core-only, I'd say go with a fighter1/Sor6 with a high dex. I know your BAB is only 4, but that's only 3 points behind a straight fighter. Take the fighter level first. Assuming you play a human, your feats can look like this:

Level 1: Weapon Focus (chosen, finesseable weapon)
Human Bonus: Weapon Finesse
Fighter level 1: Combat Expertise
Level 3: Still Spell (very important)
Level 6: Another Metamagic

Wear armor that gives you your full Dex bonus, cast Shield a lot (a wand might be in order). Spend your money on defensive items and one good weapon. Pick spells without somatic components.

Still not as good as you can do with non-core stuff from Complete Arcane, but I think it is playable.

Edit: IcyCool posted while I was typing. Great minds think alike.

 

[JimAde]

AU - is this the book, where the spell-point system is in? Because that's used anyway. And thanks for the suggestion, I'll take a look into it at the LGS.

The book you are thinking of is Unearthed Arcana.

Arcana Unearthed (and now Arcana Evolved) is a separate d20-based game (not D&D but very similar) by Monte Cook.

 

[William Ronald]

The book you are thinking of is Unearthed Arcana.

Arcana Unearthed (and now Arcana Evolved) is a separate d20-based game (not D&D but very similar) by Monte Cook.

It is pretty easy to adapt a class from AU/AE to D&D 3.5 as AU was designed as an alternate PHB. (You can still use the DMG and the MM for an AU game. So, a mageblade adapted to a 3.5 D&D game might be a better bet than multiclassing for a campaign where the players may well only go to 7th level.)

I am running an AU/D&D 3.5 event for the EN World Chicago Gameday

 

[rowport]

If you are willing to stray from straight core rules, you do have other class options that will better realize your character concept IMO.

Complete Warrior: Hexblade (fighter with curses and limited arcane spells)
Complete Divine: Favored Soul (spontaneous divine caster, decent melee fighter)
Complete Arcane: Warlock (mid-range fighter- better as ranged fighter- with spell-like abilities)
Unearthed Arcana: Battle Sorcerer class variant (base class fighter/sorcerer)

Any of the above options could get you close to your basic idea, and all of them are mechanically superior to a Fighter/Sorcerer without PrC, except one that is hyperspecialized as JimAde suggests in his build. For flavor, I think the Favored Soul or Warlock would both match your idea very well. For mechanics, Battle Sorcerer is probably the 'strongest' option.

 

[Hecabus]

Straight fromt he SRD

Sorcerer Variant: Battle Sorcerer
The battle sorcerer is no weak arcanist, hiding behind the fighters. Instead, she is a capable physical combatant who mixes magical prowess with fighting skill.

Hit Die
d8.

Base Attack Bonus
The battle sorcerer uses the base attack bonus progression of the cleric.

Class Skills
Remove Bluff from the battle sorcerer's class skill list. Add Intimidate to the battle sorcerer's class skill list.

Class Features
The battle sorcerer has all the standard sorcerer class features, except as noted below.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
At 1st level, a battle sorcerer gains proficiency with any light or one-handed martial weapon of the character's choice. She also gains proficiency with light armor.

Spellcasting
A battle sorcerer can cast sorcerer spells derived from her class levels of battle sorcerer while in light armor without the normal arcane spell failure chance.

A battle sorcerer has fewer daily spell slots than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell per day from each spell level on Table: The Sorcerer (to a minimum of zero spells per day). For example, a 1st-level battle sorcerer may cast four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells per day (plus bonus spells, if any).

A battle sorcerer knows fewer spells per spell level than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell known from each spell level on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known (to a minimum of one spell per spell level). For example, a 4th-level battle sorcerer knows five 0-level spells, two 1st-level spells, and one 2nd-level spell. When she reaches 5th level, the battle sorcerer learns one additional 1st-level spell, but doesn't learn an additional 2nd-level spell (since two minus one is one).

 

[wuyanei]

Might I suggest a warlock? Choose 'hideous blow' and call it 'smite evil', 'dark one's own luck' in lieu of 'divine grace', fake the rest with 'decieve item', and lie your way through any suspicion with 'beguiling influence'.

Ask your DM if he would be amenable to introduce some new invocations. For example, 'Phantom Steed' as a lesser invocation might be acceptable to your DM. This takes care of the paladin's mount -- or you could simply use a wand or scrolls to fake it (or just get yourself a real, living warhorse). You will not have the Ride ranks, but an enchanted saddle (+5 competence bonus ~ 2500 gp, subject to DM approval, of course) would help out on that.

This leaves 'aura of courage', 'lay on hands', 'divine health', 'turn undead' and 'remove disease'... except for 'aura of courage', the rest are all eminently fakeable with items or just by 'not doing it'. I don't know if there is an item that makes you immune to fear -- maybe your 'paladin' just has this secret weakness that he refuses to admit even to himself.

A Periapt of Health costs 7500 gp, expensive but probably acceptable at 7th level. 'Remove disease' and 'turn undead' are used rarely enough by paladins that their lack would not likely raise too many questions -- at least not right away. Or you could just take one level of cleric to actually gain the abilities honestly...

As for 'lay on hands', fake it with wands or maybe introduce something like (house rule territory): Rejuvenating Touch[sblock]Rejuvenating Touch
Least; 1st; Conjuration (Healing)
With a soothing touch you can take the pains and suffering of others onto yourself. By touching a living creature (a touch attack), you can transfer up to 1d6 hp damage per two caster levels from the touched creature to yourself. You cannot transfer more hit points in damage than the amount that would reduce you to 0 hit points. Nor will you take more damage than the amount needed to fully heal the touched creature. The touched creature is cured of up to 1d6 damage per two caster levels, and you suffer an equal amount of damage. This damage to you cannot be negated in any way. If you can remain in contact with the target creature for one full round, that use of Rejuvenating Touch is automatically maximized. (note: I made this up without any testing, so I am not certain of any balance issues.)[/sblock]

Just my two cents. This looks to be a very interesting character, I hope you will keep us all informed on how he works out in your games!

Happy gaming!