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Fighting With Style, Fighting Styles as Level 1 subclass choices

Tony Vargas

Adventurer
You absolutely are. There is no "style" to adding energy damage to attacks. That's not a type of fighting like dual wielding or being more effective with a one handed weapon or being better at dodging attacks.
In a fanstasy sub-genre with magic as pervasive as D&D, in which the Fighter has a spell-casting sub-class, sure it is.
That's the point: to have a lead-in to EK.
 

doctorbadwolf

Explorer
If I were building an EK, I'd be putting my 4th and 8th to Str or Dex and then Int after that. Probably Warcaster somewhere in there.

I wouldn't let them out AC a shield user, that just feels weird.

The choice between AC or damage is an interesting one, but it's not a choice when Duelist and a shield is as good as both. It has to be better than Duelist with a Shield in some instances. At 5th level, you'd need an Int of 18 to be equal to Duelist's damage. At 11th level, you'd be better off with duelist in every situation, and you'll probably have more bonus action spells to compete for the resource (and it won't work with Action Surge).
Then you’re making your EKs unnecessarily MAD, while gimping their spellcasting. Why even play an EK rather than a Battle Master, at that point?

Regardless, choosing damage bonus type is significant, and again, balance isn’t just numbers.
 

doctorbadwolf

Explorer
Now, a bonus action is a noticeable cost.

Perhaps the AC bonus is always on, and you can use a bonus action to also gain +X elemental damage on each attack before the start of your next turn. I’d prefer a trade off.

I’m not sure it’s valid to ignore the utility of not needing a shield, and being able to choose an elemental damage type.

So, while wielding a weapon in one hand, and either an arcane focus, material spell component, or nothing in the other hand, you have a +2 bonus to AC, and you can use a bonus action to add your Intelligence mod to damage, and make your attacks deal one of Acid, Fire, Cold, Lightning, or Thunder, damage, until the start of your next turn.

That more damage per round than dueling, but requires a bonus action to do it. I’d also be fine with keeping the damage the same as dueling, because not needing a shield for the AC and choosing damage type are both decent benefits.
 

Xeviat

Explorer
Now, a bonus action is a noticeable cost.

Perhaps the AC bonus is always on, and you can use a bonus action to also gain +X elemental damage on each attack before the start of your next turn. I’d prefer a trade off.

I’m not sure it’s valid to ignore the utility of not needing a shield, and being able to choose an elemental damage type.

So, while wielding a weapon in one hand, and either an arcane focus, material spell component, or nothing in the other hand, you have a +2 bonus to AC, and you can use a bonus action to add your Intelligence mod to damage, and make your attacks deal one of Acid, Fire, Cold, Lightning, or Thunder, damage, until the start of your next turn.

That more damage per round than dueling, but requires a bonus action to do it. I’d also be fine with keeping the damage the same as dueling, because not needing a shield for the AC and choosing damage type are both decent benefits.
I like the trade off idea. But even with the bonus action, I wouldn't want it to end up being better than duelist

If you're heart set on the bonus action, I think you should shoot for it to be comparable to TWFing, and not go for the AC boost. (Though now I have some new ideas in the ever growing how am I going to fix TWFing at my table thoughts)
 

cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
What about: If you have an implement in your off hand, when you use the attack action, you can use an action to make a melee spell attack dealing 1d6 + mod. elemental damage? Spellcasting ability is Intelligence
 

FrogReaver

Explorer
Another idea. It's magic. So insteadInstead of attempting to compete on the raw damage front instead look for useful effects that aren't directly related to damage. If the effect you decide is most thematic isn't strong enough let the style also add a +1 damage bonus.

Magical effects you could potentially produce
-Extra reach
-5ft teleport
-weapon dealing elemental damage (possibly lighting up like a torch)

I think the last might be the most thematic for a fighting style. Essentially gives the fighter a light cantrip and the ability to change elemental damage types as needed. I'd consider added +1 damage as well.
 

Mistwell

Adventurer
Nah. I’m done with this. The premise is what it is. Either engage with it, leave me alone, or get blocked.
How is my saying, "I agree you need something there, I just think it should be this other broader thing" not engaging with the premise? In fact earlier in this very thread you were more sympathetic to the concept of a cantrip until I said I'd choose one that isn't an attack cantrip and then all of a sudden you were saying how that can't possibly fit your concept.
 

Xeviat

Explorer
Why wouldn't allowing any Wizard cantrip be a lead-in to EK?

Also, the EK gets cantrips at 3rd level, and more cantrips start to become reduntant once you have the ones you want.

I'd go with bonus action for int spell attack, 1d4+Int damage, with some kind of longer reach, so you can do new weird things with it.

I also just like my first idea of bonus action to activate elemental damage on each hit.
 

doctorbadwolf

Explorer
I like the trade off idea. But even with the bonus action, I wouldn't want it to end up being better than duelist

If you're heart set on the bonus action, I think you should shoot for it to be comparable to TWFing, and not go for the AC boost. (Though now I have some new ideas in the ever growing how am I going to fix TWFing at my table thoughts)
If it costs a Bonus Action, it should do more than duelist.

What about: If you have an implement in your off hand, when you use the attack action, you can use an action to make a melee spell attack dealing 1d6 + mod. elemental damage? Spellcasting ability is Intelligence
i assume you mean use a bonus action for the melee spell attack? That could work.

Another idea. It's magic. So insteadInstead of attempting to compete on the raw damage front instead look for useful effects that aren't directly related to damage. If the effect you decide is most thematic isn't strong enough let the style also add a +1 damage bonus.

Magical effects you could potentially produce
-Extra reach
-5ft teleport
-weapon dealing elemental damage (possibly lighting up like a torch)

I think the last might be the most thematic for a fighting style. Essentially gives the fighter a light cantrip and the ability to change elemental damage types as needed. I'd consider added +1 damage as well.
This is also fun. I think the glowing sword that can be any of several damage types with a +1 damage is the simplest option that works. I’m not 100% on it, but it’s a strong contender.

How is my saying, "I agree you need something there, I just think it should be this other broader thing" not engaging with the premise? In fact earlier in this very thread you were more sympathetic to the concept of a cantrip until I said I'd choose one that isn't an attack cantrip and then all of a sudden you were saying how that can't possibly fit your concept.
You seem to have missed the part where you didn’t say that, and instead argued with me about what it was that I was proposing, and implied some level of dishonesty in the process, and the part where I repeated said that adding cantrips wasn’t a great option before responding to you on the subject.

In fact, I was criticizing the idea of adding a cantrip when you called me “combat obsessed” for assuming you were referring to an attack cantrip.

Cantrips don't work with the attack action. Fighting styles don’t interfere with using the attack action, and either benefit from Action Surge and additional Extra Attack attacks, or do something that interacts with a different part of combat, like defense or protecting allies. A cantrip isn’t a fighting style.
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
Also, the EK gets cantrips at 3rd level, and more cantrips start to become reduntant once you have the ones you want.

I'd go with bonus action for int spell attack, 1d4+Int damage, with some kind of longer reach, so you can do new weird things with it.

I also just like my first idea of bonus action to activate elemental damage on each hit.
I'm picturing a 5-10ft mjolnir type effect where the weapon, while not exactly animated, can do a couple of things and return to the owners hand. It's still just add 5ft of reach, but it sounds cool. Maybe cannot be disarmed as well but add an attunement thing like the Warlock. I like using the BA to activate the additional damage, it feels balanced.
 

Mistwell

Adventurer
You seem to have missed the part where you didn’t say that, and instead argued with me about what it was that I was proposing, and implied some level of dishonesty in the process, and the part where I repeated said that adding cantrips wasn’t a great option before responding to you on the subject.
Wow. You have misread what happened. Here was my initial response:

Not a fan of your Eldritch Knight option. I agree they could use something though. Maybe choose one wizard cantrip, and you're able to cast it a number of times a day equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum one)?
I never implied any level of dishonesty nor did I disagree with the premise. I have no idea where you got the impression I agreed with you on the premise that there should be something there. Maybe you have me confused with some other poster, or maybe you made assumptions based on opinions from the past, but that is not what happened.

In fact, I was criticizing the idea of adding a cantrip when you called me “combat obsessed” for assuming you were referring to an attack cantrip.
I was responding to your response to me, not someone else. I proposed a cantrip, you said you didn't think an attack cantrip was a good choice, and I said that's weird you assumed an attack cantrip when I never said or implied it was an attack cantrip. Sounds like you lumped my post in with the posts of others about attack cantrips.

Cantrips don't work with the attack action. Fighting styles don’t interfere with using the attack action, and either benefit from Action Surge and additional Extra Attack attacks, or do something that interacts with a different part of combat, like defense or protecting allies. A cantrip isn’t a fighting style.
I think it's fair to point out fighting styles don't tend to require a separate action. That's a different point than "it's not fighting".
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
Hmm. What about allowing the EK to use 'melee spell attack' as melee weapon attack that can then be stacked and synergized with other fighter abilities? It could be restricted to certain levels of spell, which could scale, or not. Even the ability to synergize just melee cantrips is pretty awesome. I haven't really looked at the implications yet, it just occurred to me while I was reading...
 

doctorbadwolf

Explorer
Wow. You have misread what happened. Here was my initial response:



I never implied any level of dishonesty nor did I disagree with the premise. I have no idea where you got the impression I agreed with you on the premise that there should be something there. Maybe you have me confused with some other poster, or maybe you made assumptions based on opinions from the past, but that is not what happened.
You’re either completely failing to read my post, or being dishonest. I literally never said anything about you agreeing with my premise. What the hell are you even talking about?


I was responding to your response to me, not someone else. I proposed a cantrip, you said you didn't think an attack cantrip was a good choice, and I said that's weird you assumed an attack cantrip when I never said or implied it was an attack cantrip. Sounds like you lumped my post in with the posts of others about attack cantrips.
what even is this? Reread what you’re replying to, because you don’t seem to have any idea. You are genuinely talking nonsense here. There is no connection at all between what I said and your reply.

It genuinely comes across like you’re trolling me, at this point. Please stop, or I’ll have to block you.
 

FrogReaver

Explorer
You’re either completely failing to read my post, or being dishonest. I literally never said anything about you agreeing with my premise. What the hell are you even talking about?


what even is this? Reread what you’re replying to, because you don’t seem to have any idea. You are genuinely talking nonsense here. There is no connection at all between what I said and your reply.

It genuinely comes across like you’re trolling me, at this point. Please stop, or I’ll have to block you.
Accusing each other of misreading each other posts is goina go no where.

That said, I think that even [MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION] can agree that "pick any cantrip" doesn't really fit well as a fighting style.

So why don't ya both forget the whole thing and start over from that point?
 

doctorbadwolf

Explorer
I'm picturing a 5-10ft mjolnir type effect where the weapon, while not exactly animated, can do a couple of things and return to the owners hand. It's still just add 5ft of reach, but it sounds cool. Maybe cannot be disarmed as well but add an attunement thing like the Warlock. I like using the BA to activate the additional damage, it feels balanced.
That feels swordmagey as hell! I like that a lot. Then, even when you get war magic, you get to do a weapon attack and a magic thing every round regardless of which one is your Action.
 

doctorbadwolf

Explorer
Okay, so the main elements people have proposed that I really like are:

AC/damage boost while wielding a weapon and a focus/material component. Elemental damage

Bonus Action boost to the above

Bonus Action elemental damage spell attack within 10/15ft when you take attack action

Weapon gains thrown (20/60?) and returns to your hand, BA to boost damage or perform a special attack with it?

Each of these feels distinct, and feels like a fighting style.

Possibly room to make 2-3 Fighting Styles from these ideas.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
You’re either completely failing to read my post, or being dishonest.

The moment when you have to say, "To not understand and agree with me, you are either doing bad thing A, or bad thing B," is the moment you should step back, and consider that this means you must be flawless. Are you flawless? No? Then bad things on the other guy's part are *not* the only option. Maybe, just maybe, there's another basis for the misunderstanding.

Until you are more interested in finding that basis, than accusing the other guy of badness, please don't re-engage.
 
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doctorbadwolf

Explorer
What about, for a defensive gish style:

Aegis. While wielding a melee weapon in one hand, and a component, arcane focus, or free hand, you gain a +3 bonus to AC. When an ally is the target of an attack while within 5ft of you, you can transfer this benefit to them as a Reaction. You lose the benefit while it affects them, and this effect lasts until the start of your next turn.
 

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