Figurines of Wondrous Power - offer flanking

[Istar]

I agree that it would have been a nice clarification, but it's not common to list the things something is not. Usually definitions are limited to positive statements. This might be on account of the list what stuff is not being a bit long.


Dazed has the same consequence. And a figurine's activity level is close to being dazed: it can't take out-of-turn actions, and is very limited on its own turn.

Okay if you cant flank when Dazed, that adds some credence to figurines not being able to flank.
I just wish there was a clear ruling, but doesnt seem to be.

Counter to the daze argument, is that in theory the figurine can do 3 actions if you so command it.

 

[Ferghis]

I never meant to say that it's dazed. I only said that it is similar to dazed in certain respects.

 

[Arctic Wolf]

A figurine of wondrous power cannot take actions of its own (a player needs to use their character's minor action to make the figurine take any action), and therefore cannot flank, since one of the requirements of flanking is "must be able to make an attack." Specifically, "... if you’re affected by an effect that prevents you from taking actions, you don’t flank."

I agree with this. A figurine of wonderous power is like a contruct, so basically once it's master tells it what to do and is done, it just becomes an object so that's why it doesn't provide flanking. Does that make any sense?

 

[Ferghis]

So if on your turn you commanded them to attack, then you have flanking that round, as they just made an attack and so obviosuly "must be able to make an attack".

A late response to this notion. Under your reading, dominated allies would be able to flank, since they can make an attack if made to do so.

However, dominated allies cannot flank. The notion being that the thing has to make an attack under its own steam.

 

[Istar]

A late response to this notion. Under your reading, dominated allies would be able to flank, since they can make an attack if made to do so.

However, dominated allies cannot flank. The notion being that the thing has to make an attack under its own steam.

The not flanking argument is gaining steam I must admit.
Still not a biggie will search further for some more concrete ruling.
But the little fellows do a bit of damage now and then so they are not to bad to have when you have spare actions.

 

[Ferghis]

But the little fellows do a bit of damage now and then so they are not to bad to have when you have spare actions.

Better than flanking (because it stacks), they can Aid Another for a minor action. That's supremely valuable.

 

[Omega Dawn]

Tangent question- Would a FOWP count as an ally for purposes of the Unity Avenger's damage bonus?

As I understand the rules, conjurations generally cannot count as allies. In the AV figurines are described as "conjured creatures" with their own specific rules. No mention is made of them being considered an ally or not. Creatures can be allies so, does a "conjured creature" qualify?

I'm leaning towards yes they do. 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions?

 

[Ferghis]

My opinion: these particular rules are not so well written that RAW should've given particular weight. I would base my ruling on what suits the table dynamic best. If players are not so engaged or the avenger's damage is flagging (a not so rare problem for Censure of Unity Avengers), go for it.

If you want a more specific opinion, I wouldn't make cooperative creatures automatically allies, but I can't think of any RAW harm to it in this case.

 

[the Jester]

I just wish there was a clear ruling, but doesnt seem to be.

Sure there is.

CONJURATION: A conjuration power produces a conjuration which is a creation of magical energy that resembles a creature, an object, or some other phenomenon. Even if a conjuration looks like a creature or displays some degree of sentience, it is not considered a creature.

FLANKING: One of the simplest ways for two allied creatures to gain combat advantage is for them to take up flanking positions adjacent to an enemy.... To flank an enemy, a creature and at least one of its allies must be adjacent to the enemy and on opposite sides or corners of the enemy's space.

A conjuration is not a creature. Flanking requires two allied creatures. Ergo, no flanking.

 

[the Jester]

Tangent question- Would a FOWP count as an ally for purposes of the Unity Avenger's damage bonus?

As I understand the rules, conjurations generally cannot count as allies. In the AV figurines are described as "conjured creatures" with their own specific rules. No mention is made of them being considered an ally or not. Creatures can be allies so, does a "conjured creature" qualify?

I'm leaning towards yes they do. 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions?

In looking at the RC for the quotes I pulled out above, I noted that allies are defined as "companions" of the creature in question, but not specifically as "creatures".

In addition, many dms let you target objects as well as creatures with many attacks ("I magic missile the lock!"), but conjurations aren't actually objects either, so that's still ambiguous.

I'd allow it, though.