Final Fantasy Zero: Design Diary continued

[Cynlas]

Thanks for the clarification KM. I will work on producing a 4th or 5th level "sample" dragoon here in the short run (ie today or tomorrow depending on available time).

Naturally I have another quesiton though, if the class itself provides the damage rating of the character's attacks, what do weapons do? I am thinking they just modify the base attributes (like Att or maybe a damage modifier or multiplier), but thought I'd ask...

BTW, my wife was so eager to play a Whm, I retrofitted yours into its D20 form, and she has been having a blast with it (especially Benediction now that she is high enough level to use it). Granted, she is using the standard Cleric spell list but that is an easy "fix" for later. I'll either npc a sample dragoon, or let one of my players run it to see how it works as opposed to the PrC version I have been using so far (and since no one has run or encountered one in this campaign/world, no continuity errors! Woo Hoo!).

Keep up the good work!

 

[Cynlas]

....

Nevermind. Re-reading the Whm page answered the spells Q.

 

[Cynlas]

Sample Dragoon

Well, here goes...

Al'whinnis the Spearfisher
LV4 Selkie Dragoon
Medium Humanoid (Human)
Agi: +3 Senses: Perception +0
Languages: Common, Selkie, and Draconic
Defense: 13, flat-footed: 11, touch: 13; Armor: +0
hp: 18
Limits: Quicksilver
Resistance: +1
Special Defense: None
Melee: Spear +5 (1d6+3)
Ranged: None
Atk: +3
Atk Options: Jump Attack, Lancet
Special Actions: Dragon Magic (0)
Mag: +2
mp: 12
Spells: Glory (3mp)
Attributes: Str 15(+2), Dex 14 (+2), Con 13 (+1), Int 12 (+1), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 12 (+1)
SQ: Draconic Legacy
Feats: Jaded
Skills (Rank 6): Craft (weaponsmithing) +7, Jump +8, Tumble +8
Posessions: Spear, Clothing
Habitat: Temperate Plains
Draconic Legacy: The selkie gains +1 to damage delivered to animals.

____________________

As before, I used KM's pre-crash racial conversion notes to extrapolate which stats are modified by what ability scores. I kept the possessions light, as I do not as yet know how they affect things (like armour or damage). I did roll the stats rather than using the standard array. Otherwise, I believe I got all the racial and other modifiers computed into the base class/level correctly. Still not sure on the correct number of skill ranks a character should have at a given level, so those may be off. Also, the MP are unmodified, as I am not sure if they get adjusted for ability scores (and if so, how). Enjoy and scrutinize plz. Corrections welcome!

 

[I'm A Banana]

VERY NICE!

I like what you've got there, and it's solid even without the mechanics descriptions that are lacking (but coming next!)

Naturally I have another quesiton though, if the class itself provides the damage rating of the character's attacks, what do weapons do? I am thinking they just modify the base attributes (like Att or maybe a damage modifier or multiplier), but thought I'd ask...

Think about how FF10 put "attributes" on different weapons -- katanas could hurt armored creatures better, while the thrown weapons were effective against fliers, and certain stat-modification abilities would only be put on certain weapons.

Now think about how this is applied to d20 -- some weapons (like spears) can have Reach. Some weapons can have Impressive Critical (x3) or Superior Critical(x4). Some can have a Frequent Critical (19-20). Some can grant you a bonus to trip or disarm checks, some can be set against a charge, some are masterwork, or made of silver...these are actually what characters get to spend AP on. AP (along with GP and XP) *is* the major award category in FFZ, and you can cash it in on things from weapon and armor modifications to special character abilities (auto-potion and the like) to super-secret-special characters and ultimate limit moves.

Your job will give you how much damage you can deal. Your weapon proficiencies will help you modify how you can deal that damage with AP...which means that Knights, for instance, will have more ways to change their attacks around than black mages, and thus will be more likely to have the right weapon for the job (or a few very POWERFUL weapons).

BTW, my wife was so eager to play a Whm, I retrofitted yours into its D20 form, and she has been having a blast with it (especially Benediction now that she is high enough level to use it). Granted, she is using the standard Cleric spell list but that is an easy "fix" for later. I'll either npc a sample dragoon, or let one of my players run it to see how it works as opposed to the PrC version I have been using so far (and since no one has run or encountered one in this campaign/world, no continuity errors! Woo Hoo!).

I'm working on a spell list, I promise. It's just a (relatively) low priority when considering that I neglected to give enough info to truly make a character.

 

[Cynlas]

Your job will give you how much damage you can deal. Your weapon proficiencies will help you modify how you can deal that damage...

That works. It even makes sense, once we pull out of the D&D mentality that the weapon itself should be the basis of damage delt.

I'm working on a spell list, I promise.

No problem, I just thought you might already have one for the Whm or Blm like you did for the other spellcasters presented. But then, the Dragoon and Crusader spell lists are probably a lot shorter than a true mage's list!

As to the D20 re-conversions, I have actually been working on two "levels" of conversions. The first that I started with was a pretty transparent, template-like, overlay to the standard D20 classes. Thus my wife's White mage cast spells at the same rate and level as the Cleric, but without armor and at a reduced BAB, and the special Whm abilities are reappointed to levels based on where they fall in relation to spell levels (and a little arbitrary placement). The second conversions I have begun working on are a more faithful adaptation ot the FFZ versions, to include MP and other issues. In this version, however, I had to stray from the 1 D20 level = 2 FFZ levels somewhat, as there are still more FFZ levels after such than exist in standard D20. Thus I when with a 2/3 alternating conversion to make it all fit. Basically, the level conversions in this case looks like the following:
D20 ---------- FFZ
Level --------- Levels
1 -------------1-2
2 -------------3-5
3 -------------6-7
4 -------------8-10
5 ------------11-12
ect.......

The main reason for this is preserving the respective power levels for spellcasters, thus assuring that the D20 version is truly capable of casting the equivalent number of spells as their FFZ counterpart. I suppose I could have been more arbitrary in just assigning MP for each level, but thats no fun In retrospect, it gives a slight conditional boost to the D20 caster, as a 4th level D20 Blm has more MP than an 8th or 9th level FFZ counterpart, but equal MP to a 10th level FFZ caster.

 

[I'm A Banana]

In this version, however, I had to stray from the 1 D20 level = 2 FFZ levels somewhat, as there are still more FFZ levels after such than exist in standard D20. Thus I when with a 2/3 alternating conversion to make it all fit. Basically, the level conversions in this case looks like the following:

You may find the upper levels (if you get that far) a bit more powerful than normal. Because FFZ level 50 is realy d20 level 25 (e.g.: +5 more BAB for fighters, +2-3 levels of spells for casters, +2 feats, etc). It might not be that GREAT of a difference, but it probably will be noticable.

The main reason for this is preserving the respective power levels for spellcasters, thus assuring that the D20 version is truly capable of casting the equivalent number of spells as their FFZ counterpart.

Believe it or not, the current MP calculation is based on that -- to ensure that primary spellcasters could cast as many spells per day as a normal D&D character. The difference is that an FFZ character can choose to sacrifice lower levels of spells to channel a higher levle of spells, in effect.

 

[Cynlas]

You may find the upper levels (if you get that far) a bit more powerful than normal.

Yup, I noticed. But for things like BAB, feats, and even HP, the closer conversions were still going to follow the basic conventions (like only a +20 fighter bab at 20th level), as some things need to conform to the system being converted to. MP and spells/level and spell power levels are the main difference in progressive power between the two, along with the extra class/job special abilities.

While UA contains a spell point system, it is rather different from the FFZ one, and as I noticed from the few spells already made available, even spells of the same level have distinct MP costs, making the use of the UA spell-point system an inadequate substitution. This also required a more direct porting of the FFZ system than necessary for other items, like BAB, to ensure that the mages didn't get unintentially shafted of the ability to cast their spells, or fuel their class abilities at a given level.

In all actuality, it was the Blm abilities that made me re-think the way I was originally converting things via the "template" route. The only way to mechanically "fit" the Black mage's specials into the standard spell-slot casting system was to either make them usable a certain number of times a day, or have them spontaneously "burn" a spell slot from the caster's daily alottment of a level commensurate with the level of power they are using. Either way works, but neither really captures the feel of the FFZ versions.

In the long run, though, I think the Whm abilities might need re-tweaking. While our party WHm can cast things like Heal or Cure Serious Wounds, she instead spends round after round "casting" Benediction for much greater effect, overall, than any given spell. Keep in mind that the D20 Benediction is inherently slightly weaker than the FFZ version, as I changed "per point of Magic" to D20 "caster level", and when gained only provides 8 dice of healing (as opposed to the 12 or more of the FFZ version, as it is gained at 8th D20 level). Currently, this is being balanced somewhat by the non-mechanical issue that also occurs in FFTA (I am told) when these abilities are used: the White Mage becomes a primary target for intelligent opponents. OF course, even though it heals less itself than its FFZ version, it tends to have a greater impact as D20 characters have less HP than their FFZ counterparts thanks to the stable & maximized HP progression of FFZ over the randomized D20 characters. So, in the end, it may not be an issue in the FFZ version of play. Spending three rounds to cast Cure 3 might be more efficient or necessary to heal three party members than spending three rounds of Benediction. Especially if there are attacks which do insane damage like in the vgs. Can't wait to find out...

 

[Cynlas]

Now for a Dragoon question:

In the VGs, the Dragoon's Jump ability had a side effect of protecting the Lancer/Dragoon from getting hit with attacks or effects/spells while "off screen" during the lengthy jump itself. Given your free-flowing initiative system, it would have been easy to include this "feature" into the jump ability. What was your reasoning for dropping this (granted, "side-") effect?

Oh yeah, another question, how does the max-skill ranks work in FFZ?

Thanks.

 

[I'm A Banana]

In the long run, though, I think the Whm abilities might need re-tweaking. While our party WHm can cast things like Heal or Cure Serious Wounds, she instead spends round after round "casting" Benediction for much greater effect, overall, than any given spell. Keep in mind that the D20 Benediction is inherently slightly weaker than the FFZ version, as I changed "per point of Magic" to D20 "caster level", and when gained only provides 8 dice of healing (as opposed to the 12 or more of the FFZ version, as it is gained at 8th D20 level). Currently, this is being balanced somewhat by the non-mechanical issue that also occurs in FFTA (I am told) when these abilities are used: the White Mage becomes a primary target for intelligent opponents. OF course, even though it heals less itself than its FFZ version, it tends to have a greater impact as D20 characters have less HP than their FFZ counterparts thanks to the stable & maximized HP progression of FFZ over the randomized D20 characters. So, in the end, it may not be an issue in the FFZ version of play. Spending three rounds to cast Cure 3 might be more efficient or necessary to heal three party members than spending three rounds of Benediction. Especially if there are attacks which do insane damage like in the vgs. Can't wait to find out...

The idea is that white magic can heal about as much as a black magic spell of the same level can deal in damage. Which, in general, is more than a Cure Blank Wounds spell can heal. This is, in part, because white mages don't get some of the cool stuff clerics get for combat and damaging magic. In comparison to these, Benediction, by the time you have 6th level magic, isn't that potent. Earlier in the process and still using the Cure Wounds spells, Benediction is pretty overpowered. You might want to make it a full-round action, or keep an X/dy limit on it, or make it cost a 0-level spell slot, or something else minor like that.

In the VGs, the Dragoon's Jump ability had a side effect of protecting the Lancer/Dragoon from getting hit with attacks or effects/spells while "off screen" during the lengthy jump itself. Given your free-flowing initiative system, it would have been easy to include this "feature" into the jump ability. What was your reasoning for dropping this (granted, "side-") effect?

Binary abilities are VERY powerful. The Dragoon while jumping is basically immune to any damage, and that's something that shouldn't be easily doled out, certainly not at an early level when the dragoon first gets Jump.

Still, that is preserved. It is far too classic to deny. It's going into the limits you can learn from Palidoor, though, meaning it fits in with other very powerful abilities and has some severe restrictions on it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Rules and Rolls

This is the document so you can see the calculations I've been doing myself up to this point. The formulas may be changed, but this is what I'm going with for now.

Equipment coming soon. The weapons are requiring a LOT Of game research.

And....GO #12!