FINALLY! A fix for charisma!

[mirivor]

harperscout: I agree with you about the wealth. It will just go to other, probably more managable, places. Limiting the magical items is a good idea and quite honestly only a side-effect... I had never thought of it from that angle...

Jack Simth: True. However, even in a single campaign stretching years, I think that the players would catch on to you. I think it might be fun to see, though!!

Kisanji Arael: That is a great thought. Alright then. Let's presume that, for my own world, I want to lower the limit to something within reason.... 4? 5? 6? How many do you suppose the base should be? Every three points above 10 is a nice number to shoot for. Not to easy to reach, yet attainable in the end.
PS. I saw your post about the Masanume??... Are you majoring in asian culture? How in the nine hells do you know what he is talking about? It is like you guys are talking in code...

Nyeshet: Yes, that is an issue. I stated earlier that my own world does not have those items. I consider them to be ridiculously cheap for what they do and I am aiming for a lower stat game. You could dictate that only natural statistics provide for the bonus... enhancement bonuses simply don't allow for the manipulations the way that natural talent/skill does. I never really thought about it, truthfully.

 

[Bront]

I much prefer using action points and having Charisma effect your total by the modifier. Makes Charisma useful, ties it into luck a little bit, and generaly not that overpowering.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Great solution IMO might not work in a game with low amounts of magic items though (like my current game). None the less I think this idea is great and will probably use it in the future (though I might do 11+charisma modifier).

I do the action point thing too Bront.

 

[Bront]

Great solution IMO might not work in a game with low amounts of magic items though (like my current game). None the less I think this idea is great and will probably use it in the future (though I might do 11+charisma modifier).

I do the action point thing too Bront.

I think both is a bit much though.

Here's another note. Does a race that has a penalty to charisma have a penalty to magic items? The Dwarf I can understand, but why would a half-orc be less able to use magic items than a human or elf?

 

[Firebeetle]

Brillant Idea

I think I'll use this one. . .

The previous poster is right, though, it limits magic items for ALL at half.

I would make the number of items worn equal to the CHA score. That way, it penalizes it being a "dump" score (6s and 8s will still hurt) while not being terrible. It allows those with high CHA to have an advantage.

Really, I like it. It's like the "Constitution is the amount of damage you can take under zero" rule (Arcana Unearthed has it.) Just a good idea that fits in the system well without a lot of hoodoo involved.

As for "extra items" I would simply have the extra items not work.

 

[Kisanji Arael]

Kisanji Arael: That is a great thought. Alright then. Let's presume that, for my own world, I want to lower the limit to something within reason.... 4? 5? 6? How many do you suppose the base should be? Every three points above 10 is a nice number to shoot for. Not to easy to reach, yet attainable in the end.
PS. I saw your post about the Masanume??... Are you majoring in asian culture? How in the nine hells do you know what he is talking about? It is like you guys are talking in code...

Well, let us begin with a standard fighter. What items do you feel that he should be able to have even with a Cha 10? A sword, surely. A shield, too. And a helmet, armor, and either boots or some other trinket. So lets say that a character can, with Cha 10, hold 5 magic items. that covers a Wizard's staff, robe, and evil eye with two left to go. Of course, he can still activate magic items, but this is for the number to be allowed constantly running.

Now one stipulation I feel that I should make is the characters' ability to bypass what are currently established as the limits for specific items. If my Wizard has 8 Cha, and feels the need to have 4 rings of elemental command, that is now a very serious sacrifice for him. Of course it won't be as much of a sacrifice for the Sorcerer with a Cha 19, but then again he has had to miss out on skill points the Wizard has, as well as other benefits of being extremely intelligent (all those lost games of chess in Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion...). The only exceptions to this are when the character actually cannot wear any more of a particular item. However, I would have no problem with a fighter putting magical padded armor under his magical full-plate. He gets a bonus to AC, yes. Overpowered? I don't think so. Like I said, I have no problem with a character wearing four rings. It balances out in the end, because everyone gets it. The incredibly n00b potent items can (and should) be hidden out of safe reach. Also, it adds a layer of balance to the bard that many believe to be sorely lacking.

As to your questions-- I am not majoring in Asian studies, mostly because I am in high school. I do not plan to major in Asian studies, as there is more money to be had in translating.

And as to your second... well, I wrote up something long but thought better of posting a critical self-analysis on this site. It might be off-topic. If you want, I can send it to you. The short answer and incomplete answer is "I know way too much."

 

[mirivor]

Kisanji Arael: Ahhh! A loredelver... some say that I know way too much about this game. Phooey! Send me that self-analysis; you have peaked my interest.

Your first question: A helm is typically included with gauntlets/gloves with nearly every suit of armor in the game. So, we have weapon (or 2), armor, shield (if only 1 weapon, perhaps), and two other items of one nature or another. That sounds good. 5 items is the standard limit for constant items functioning on a character. For every 3 points above 10 in charisma, that limit is increased by one. Excellent!

As for bypassing the limit, I will have to dwell on that. Wearing two suits of armor would be tough, especially as plate already has a layer of padded underneath it. We shall see...

Bront: I have no races available in my campaign that punish charisma. Any of those that did were altered. See, I cannot imagine any race that has less personality than any other. Dwarves are about as full of personality as they can get, half-orcs are mean and green and probably quite intimidating, which I link to personality.

 

[Nyaricus]

this is definitively an intersting varient . . . not sure if i'd use it though. I dunno, just seem's a bit unweidy, esp. since Wizards (whom i veiw as item crafters extrodinair) would be, in this system, basically making a bunch of items for the sorcerer to be blasting away foes with. And a party doesn't need a Sorc and a Wizard . . . It could for sure work for your game, since you say you have things balanced enough . . . but i'd still be relectant.

I think this is the sort of issue that cannot be handled properly by 3.x edition. Hopefully 4th (when or whatever that is) will put more emphasis on ability scores rather than ability score modifiers. That's one of my main gripes with the system as is. Think about it.

P.S. - using Cha instead of Wis for Will Saves is one of my balancing factors in my game, and i am considering using action points based on Cha for my upcoming Campaign.

 

[the Jester]

I think the best way to encourage pcs to use charisma as something other than a dump stat is to use the charisma-based skills a lot. If the npcs' reactions are actually influenced by Diplomacy checks, and if the pcs can Bluff their way through challenges, they are more likely to emphasize charisma.

Make it count for more in the game.

 

[mirivor]

Nyaricus: I agree with you about the wizard to some extent, but do not forget that the typical adventuring wizard is going to have 3 or more companions to craft for as well. I don't think that the impact would even be noticed. Your statement about my home campaign is relevant and cannot be understated. So:

To those of you looking at this variant, remember that my campaign is heavily modified with UA as well as variants found here and with other sources. Still, I think that this variant would work well, if even to make players consider charisma a little more than they typically would.

the Jester: Your point is well-taken. Unfortunately, my biggest weakness as DM is skill use. I think that, depsite its simplicity, the skill system is very clunky in practice. I would rather wing most of the skills without 4 kazillion die rolls.

Later!